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[FRET]

Who wants to invite me? :}

[ink.inc]

how do i change it to space bar? i tried going into the settings but im not sure which one to change. edit: oh figured it out. now i just need to find out how to buy items.

right click

i think i've gotten a hang of this game

at least, i don't feed retardedly anymore

ps windrunner is the best champion

[RCIX]

paragraphs of raging about a feature of a game he doesnt play

I have tried dota 2, as well as spent most of a year in another moba with denying. It's a clunky mechanic that is basically an ascended bug (I think anyway) from the original dota. Moreover, it very much encourages passive play via denying as much as possible so you don't have to push out much past your tower.

Now shaddup and go back to your troll cave.

[im9today]

tried and actually learned are two different things as evidenced by your little rant about couriers and skills not scaling

[RCIX]

tried and actually learned are two different things as evidenced by your little rant about couriers and skills not scaling

And i have to question your judgement skills if you're doing so based on my opinion of a certain game's mechanics.

[im9today]

tried and actually learned are two different things as evidenced by your little rant about couriers and skills not scaling

And i have to question your judgement skills if you're doing so based on my opinion of a certain game's mechanics.

Ask a question then.

[Nillo]

It's better than Dota, where the first 20-30+ minutes consists solely of a deny/lasthit contest with the occasional gank or such.

Um, no. This is not true at all. You're not gonna see someone play Mirana or Tinker or Shadow Fiend and just stay in the mid lane for thirty minutes farming. There are heroes in DotA that are completely capable of killing someone from full health at around level 3-7. I've played Tinker games where I maybe laned for three minutes and then spent the rest of the game on a non-stop ganking spree.

In Dota there is a lot less sustain and more rewards for being aggressive and actually killing the guys in your lane. If you kill Drow or Sniper a few times early it will really set them back and prevent them from getting a strong lategame since they lose gold every time. The support heroes in Dota are much more fun to play too (though this is admittedly subjective), as most of them aren't completely worthless in battle and can kill people too if the situation is right, while in League you'll never see Sona kill anyone unless her opponents are really dumb.

[RCIX]

It's better than Dota, where the first 20-30+ minutes consists solely of a deny/lasthit contest with the occasional gank or such.

Um, no. This is not true at all. You're not gonna see someone play Mirana or Tinker or Shadow Fiend and just stay in the mid lane for thirty minutes farming. There are heroes in DotA that are completely capable of killing someone from full health at around level 3-7. I've played Tinker games where I maybe laned for three minutes and then spent the rest of the game on a non-stop ganking spree.

In Dota there is a lot less sustain and more rewards for being aggressive and actually killing the guys in your lane. If you kill Drow or Sniper a few times early it will really set them back and prevent them from getting a strong lategame since they lose gold every time. The support heroes in Dota are much more fun to play too (though this is admittedly subjective), as most of them aren't completely worthless in battle and can kill people too if the situation is right, while in League you'll never see Sona kill anyone unless her opponents are really dumb.

Well then I have the wrong impression What you describe doesn't sound that interesting though, if I don't have sustain then I'm dumping tons of money (directly or indirectly) into just schlepping back and forth between the pool and lane healing up. One of my favorite characters in LoL is Soraka, because she's the sole character that has a mana recovery skill AND a heal. That way I don't have to go back to the base unless i get super bursted and zoned or i have to shop.

To put it out there what my position is:

I play to have fun. Now, MOBAs are very competitive and the best way to have fun is to win, so i got fairly good. But honestly? I don't want something super complicated. The whole trees thing, while interesting, looks fiddly and just another way for pro players to trollface me when getting away. There's "tangos" and "health potions" and "bottles", each giving me healing but doing it in different ways. What's wrong with just a health pot?

And then denying. Not only does it not make much sense from a gameplay perspective unless you tack on artificial rewards for it, how the heck does it make sense in lore? Things like that. Plus there's taste things (like the UI being cluttered and suffocating, shop being hard to use), and I'd have to spend like 30+ games just getting used to the UI and items, never mind the heroes.

Feel free to troll im9, done replying to ya

[Blademasterbobo]

the donkeys bring you things

donkey = no returning to base every 5 seconds

one health potion heals you a little, one heals you a lot but if you're hurt it stops healing you

it's not rocket science. sounds like you're just trying to find reasons to dislike it. (or maybe you're just stupid and incapable of keeping track of two items? idk)

[Dragonmaw]

Denying and gold loss on death are shitty mechanics.

Also stealing FPS announcers is stupid.

[Nillo]

Well then I have the wrong impression What you describe doesn't sound that interesting though, if I don't have sustain then I'm dumping tons of money (directly or indirectly) into just schlepping back and forth between the pool and lane healing up. One of my favorite characters in LoL is Soraka, because she's the sole character that has a mana recovery skill AND a heal. That way I don't have to go back to the base unless i get super bursted and zoned or i have to shop.

To put it out there what my position is:

I play to have fun. Now, MOBAs are very competitive and the best way to have fun is to win, so i got fairly good. But honestly? I don't want something super complicated. The whole trees thing, while interesting, looks fiddly and just another way for pro players to trollface me when getting away. There's "tangos" and "health potions" and "bottles", each giving me healing but doing it in different ways. What's wrong with just a health pot?

And then denying. Not only does it not make much sense from a gameplay perspective unless you tack on artificial rewards for it, how the heck does it make sense in lore? Things like that. Plus there's taste things (like the UI being cluttered and suffocating, shop being hard to use), and I'd have to spend like 30+ games just getting used to the UI and items, never mind the heroes.

Feel free to troll im9, done replying to ya

Sustain promotes passive play. If sustain doesn't exist, there is an incentive to be aggressive and attack the enemy heroes in your lane. You might like playing Soraka and Sona in League, but Riot's designers have actually acknowledged that they present a design problem because they are quite passive. Look at any Rioter's recent posts about supports and you'll hear them saying that they want to change supports fundamentally and make them more active instead of just being healing/warding bots.

I understand if you don't want to play a complicated game. League of Legends is made for casual players, so that might be a better choice for you. But there are people like me who do want unique skillsets and complicated mechanics that require a lot of practice to master, like tree juking and shift-queueing an ult/dagger/impale combo with Sand King, and I'm going to play Dota because that is more fun to me.

stealing FPS announcers is stupid.

I like the Unreal announcer a lot more than the League one. I'm pretty sure Valve has permission from Epic to use their announcer in Dota 2, so they haven't really "stolen" it, just used it again because it is a really good announcer.

[deathtotheweird]

I disagree. You should be punished for dying, being punished makes me want to strive harder so I don't die or put myself in a position to die. I also want my kills to do more than just give me gold/xp and merely inconvenience whoever I killed.

Denies, I'm not so sure I fully understand the impact they have on the enemy in terms of xp/gold lost. Though I do understand that by killing your own creeps you can easily control where and how much your creeps are pushing your lane. That's why GP was so good with his denial ability, he could easily make the creeps push to his tower, forcing the enemy to over-extend thus leaving them susceptible to ganks, or miss on last hits and potentially xp.

I don't see how denies are super complicated, it's actually quite easy to grasp and understand how useful the mechanic really is.

[RCIX]

I disagree. You should be punished for dying, being punished makes me want to strive harder so I don't die or put myself in a position to die. I also want my kills to do more than just give me gold/xp and merely inconvenience whoever I killed.

The thing is though, by default, dying punishes you. It takes you out of the zone for XP, creep farm, and general hero things that you do. It depends on the timings and travel distances ofc but that is very often plenty of loss; no point in adding insult to injury.

Denies, I'm not so sure I fully understand the impact they have on the enemy in terms of xp/gold lost. Though I do understand that by killing your own creeps you can easily control where and how much your creeps are pushing your lane. That's why GP was so good with his denial ability, he could easily make the creeps push to his tower, forcing the enemy to over-extend thus leaving them susceptible to ganks, or miss on last hits and potentially xp.

I don't see how denies are super complicated, it's actually quite easy to grasp and understand how useful the mechanic really is.

My objection though is that it forces a more passive style where you furiously pick off as many of your creeps as you can so you don't have to extend yourself for farm. It's a net balance when you have both sides doing it (assuming equal skill), but it just involves piling on more micromanagement work. To me, a measure of skill is how you can turn your skillset and the situation to your advantage (taunting enemies to pull them into a group of allies, snagging a kill at your tower via well-timed summoner spells and baiting when you're low health, etc.). Lasthitting and denying is purely a demonstration of learned reflex.

Plus, as stated before, it makes little mechanical or lore sense.

[Nillo]

Most of the objections you present about denying apply to lasthits as well. Are you saying that last hitting shouldn't exist? In that case, do you think League of Legends should be changed so everyone gets gold whenever nearby creeps die regardless of who killed them? After all, it's just a demonstration of learned reflex.

And I think you're making this look like a much bigger deal than it actually is. Look at the stats of an average Dota player, and they'll usually have about ten times as many last hits as they have denies. It doesn't really break the game at all, it just adds another element to laning that makes it more interesting.

[Trevor Dunbar]

I think denying is fine, and it's fun when you get to deny yourself or others (with certain DoTs on them).

RCIX, you are just making yourself sound like a casual bejeweled-type player. Cowboy up!

It's good when you are completely owning a lane and you deny creeps on top of it, it just ensures the enemy doesn't make some bullshit comeback like I've seen so many times in LoL. I mean, does it feel good to know you completely trumped someone (multiple times) for them just to come back and totally kick your ass later? that's not fun.

Plus, as stated before, it makes little mechanical or lore sense.

Just wait until they make a dota 2 comic about the wonders of denying.
"Hah! I denyed you!"
"But, wait! I deny you!"
"Well, I just denyed you again!"
"Oh yeah? Well, I deny myself"
"But you weren't even hurt..."

[im9today]

Well then I have the wrong impression What you describe doesn't sound that interesting though, if I don't have sustain then I'm dumping tons of money (directly or indirectly) into just schlepping back and forth between the pool and lane healing up. One of my favorite characters in LoL is Soraka, because she's the sole character that has a mana recovery skill AND a heal. That way I don't have to go back to the base unless i get super bursted and zoned or i have to shop.

To put it out there what my position is:

I play to have fun. Now, MOBAs are very competitive and the best way to have fun is to win, so i got fairly good. But honestly? I don't want something super complicated. The whole trees thing, while interesting, looks fiddly and just another way for pro players to trollface me when getting away. There's "tangos" and "health potions" and "bottles", each giving me healing but doing it in different ways. What's wrong with just a health pot?

And then denying. Not only does it not make much sense from a gameplay perspective unless you tack on artificial rewards for it, how the heck does it make sense in lore? Things like that. Plus there's taste things (like the UI being cluttered and suffocating, shop being hard to use), and I'd have to spend like 30+ games just getting used to the UI and items, never mind the heroes.

Feel free to troll im9, done replying to ya

it's really amazing how you can type paragraph after paragraph complaining about something you dont understand at all, everything you type is wrong

artificial rewards? as opposed to what what the even fuck
how does it make sense in the lore? seriously? just go fuck yourself

why does tidehunter have a slow THIS ISNT CANON BLEEEERPPP
chess is DUMB armies dont work this way THE LORE

can we get a mod PLEASE he is just trolling this thread!! the lore smh

[Nillo]

it's fun when you get to deny yourself or others (with certain DoTs on them).

Yup. It's also the one thing that keeps Doom Bringer from being stupidly OP. I played one game as Doom where the enemies denied five of my kills, so my stats looked pretty terrible at the end.

[JOBA]

Broken matchmaking (or lack thereof) makes DOTA 2 extremely frustrating.
Heck even playing vanila DOTA on garena with various retards is a lot more pleasing. Now if that doesn't tell how much DOTA 2 matchmaking sucks i dont know what does.

[FRET]

beta matchmaking (or lack thereof) makes DOTA 2 extremely beta.
Heck even playing vanila DOTA on garena with various retards is a lot less beta. Now if that doesn't tell how much DOTA 2 matchmaking is beta i dont know what does.

beta



also fuck you blackpeoplemeet.com. you aren't dota 2 invites at all.

[PaleFox]

It's good you felt you could share that with us, joba.

I hope you feel welcome to post more meaningless canting in other threads as well, because I expect it will happen anyway.



In other news, DOTA 2 is cool but difficult; perhaps more heroes will bring more balance. I hope so because Weaver is pretty overpowered, at least as it is.