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[TeeGee]

Thats like saying Mario the lost levels doesnt require skill because its core concepts are move, jump an avoid obstacles, reach the end.

Exactly. "Skill" is not grasping the core mechanics, but becoming very good at them.

That said, I've seen people rage and insult regardless of your skill level. If you get owned, you're a "fucking n00b feeder!!!!!111". If you get in the zone, and kill the enemies like there's no tomorrow, you are a "fucking n00b imba hero abuser!!!11!!".  



That said, I only played the original DotA, so I don't know about the HoN and LoL communities.

[Nix]

LoL is also much better if you play with friends on teams. Solo queues are universally terrible

[Mhaine]

The community in these games, in my opinion, always gave incredibly fine feedback (due to their honesty) and allowed you to improve.

WTF ARE YOU DOING IDIOT, L2P NOOB! Fucking fucktard fucker retard, I hope you die in a fire you dipshit pile of shit. OMG, YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!! FUCKING REPORT THIS MORON ALREADY!!! DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE OF CANCER YOU FAGGOT AIDS BAG.

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback. There is always a reason for that kind of talk (unless, of course, the player itself is not good; however, you would not see such a situation when a proper ranking system is implemented). While traditional SC style games only allow one to see his own mistakes in the game only by being introspective, DOTA games allow one to improve himself during the game itself thanks to the cooperative aspects involved.

What skill requirements? I'm sorry but Moba Games aren't exactly hard games. Anyone that has ever played your average RTS Game or RPG will do just fine.

Since DotA games are competitive (maybe except LoL at high levels due to metagame stagnation and lack of variety in competitive teams), one would have to assume that an average player would not do fine. However, my point was that the skill requirement was not the reason people don't like MOBA's, which we both agree on.

People just value their time. The decision is a pretty easy one, do I want a good time or do I want to experience abuse. Hence, the decision to stay away from Mobas. As stunning as it may seem, given how gamers behave in games, people generally don't enjoy insults and verbal abuse.

What you have said is indeed true. I just do not think that this justification gives you the right to call LoL players, Steam users, or any MOBA players, in that matter, xenophobic and racist idiots, like you did in the post I initially answered to. Opinions may differ, but unless we learn to answer offence with tolerance, I doubt we can ever achieve happiness.

[shig]

while you were arguing i signed my steam account for the DOTA2 Beta. gg

[C.A. Sinner]

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback.

hahahahahahaha

ahahhahahhahahahaaahhhaahaa

hahahahahahhahhahahaaaahahaaha  

LOL

this, folks, is why "e-sports" will never be taken seriously.

[Mhaine]

while you were arguing i signed my steam account for the DOTA2 Beta. gg

I did it an hour ago. Was I too late?

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback.

hahahahahahaha

ahahhahahhahahahaaahhhaahaa

hahahahahahhahhahahaaaahahaaha 

this, folks, is why "e-sports" will never be taken seriously.

Thank you for insulting me unnecessarily and showing that you do not know about Brood War or SC2 or of plenty of other games that have had, and still have a competitive scene and tournaments.

[C.A. Sinner]

That was just honest feedback. And I meant taken seriously by people outside of their respective scenes the way regular sports are.

[Mhaine]

That was just honest feedback. And I meant taken seriously by people outside of their respective scenes the way regular sports are.

True. What are the signs of getting taken "seriously", if I may ask so? Is it money that make sports get taken seriously; or is it drama, or, is it the requirement of some degree of availability for improvement that makes some better than others? Is it perhaps, the ability to get fans and sponsors?
For e-sports have all of that, and more.

[Samtagonist]

Fuck, I was at work, did I miss the beta?

the HoN and LoL communities.

LoL and HoN

[dEnamed]

Text

Really not sure if you aren't just trolling, hard. But since I give people the benefit of the doubt: League of Legends indeed DOES have a racist problem. Don't believe me? Well could an official employee convince you? -> Lookie, lookie: http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=285221
That's what the community has become to be associated with. Does that mean I just called every single one of them a racist? Please... don't  be that way (Hint: I did not). There are also references for the other associations. Most notable on Tigsource (oh noes), the assumption that Steamusers are considered self entitled idiots. Are they? Doubt it. But that's what they've become associated with.
Just like X-Box gamers having a bad reputation, Counter-Strikers being known as cheaters, bankers being known as greedy money vampires and politicians as crooks. Does that mean they all are? Nope. Does it even matter whether they actually are? Not in the slightest. Its reputation and nothing else.

Concerning the Skill Argument:
Maybe it's another one of those "lost in translation" things that do creep up. I do not mean to say that those games require zero skill. Just that the core principles are easy to pick up. Compare Mobagames with let's say modern Flight Simulators, can you honestly keep a straight face and say they (Mobas) require a lot of skill to play in comparison?
One you can play with just the mouse, the other one requires you to memorize 200+ Hotkeys and a Starting Checklist to even get off the ground.
Keep in mind, we're talking about Skill Requirements, as in you need to grasp a certain amount of concepts to play the game. I'm not talking about playing it well at all.

Concerning the Beta:
Just search for DotA in Steam, follow the link to dota2.com and sign up. The reason I recommend doing it through steam is that you don't have to login.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback. There is always a reason for that kind of talk

99% of the time someone rages at you like that its cause THEY made a mistake and its easier to blame your "shitty ass noob baddie teammates" than it is to admit it was your mistake.

[dEnamed]

And, as I had mentioned, that would be considered honest, fine feedback. There is always a reason for that kind of talk

99% of the time someone rages at you like that its cause THEY made a mistake and its easier to blame your "shitty ass noob baddie teammates" than it is to admit it was your mistake.

Also that.

[Dragonmaw]

I do not think people who hate such games just detest the skill requirements.

What skill requirements? I'm sorry but Moba Games aren't exactly hard games. Anyone that has ever played your average RTS Game or RPG will do just fine. So again, what skill requirements?

I never got a lot of trolling when I was into LoL and I played for a decent amount of time. Either people just liked me more or (more likely) I didn't suck as much as people who get trolled as much as you seem to be indicating. And saying that DoTa-likes don't require skill is silly. If you don't think they require skill, then that's clear evidence of you never having hit the skill barrier where people stop trolling.

in the 600 or 700 LoL games I have played, I'd say someone was trolling someone else in 90% of the games

[Samtagonist]

Concerning the Beta:
Just search for DotA in Steam, follow the link to dota2.com and sign up. The reason I recommend doing it through steam is that you don't have to login.

Thanks, I've found it.

in the 600 or 700 LoL games I have played, I'd say someone was trolling someone else in 90% of the games

Dragonmaw, if we discount all the Brazilians who were telling people to 'got to hell', it probably is in the low tens.  

[C.A. Sinner]

True. What are the signs of getting taken "seriously", if I may ask so? Is it money that make sports get taken seriously; or is it drama, or, is it the requirement of some degree of availability for improvement that makes some better than others? Is it perhaps, the ability to get fans and sponsors?
For e-sports have all of that, and more.

I don't doubt it. I think the reason why competitive gaming isn't taken seriously by the general public (and even some gamers) is the communities, which I already hinted at.

I was a semi-professional skier for several years and as far as I remember it was generally frowned upon to be a douche to people who are worse than you. There was drama, sure, but even the worst of that was pretty tame compared to what I experience in videogames regularly. Every competitive game I've played/tried so far has lacked that aspect of sportsmanship, probably due to internet anonymity.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy (friendly) competition, what I don't enjoy is getting yelled at by nerdraging 13 year old boys. If you don't mind that, that's fine but I do. I also fail to see how telling someone they "suck" or calling them a "faggot" is useful feedback at all. I'm pretty sure most new players are well aware of the fact that they're not good at the game.