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November 21, 2014, 12:23:30 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesDotA 2 Thread
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StrictlyDominant
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« Reply #2500 on: January 02, 2013, 11:22:17 AM »

derp
I agree that fighting games are the highest form of competition in gaming. No other genre requires knowledge and real-time execution on a level playing field. But a lot of what you said isn't true.

Player 1 priority(UMVC3,MK,AE?), Vortex Fighting and Resets(SSF4AE12,UMVC3,MK,*)
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Fighters are headed in that direction to some degree.

Fighting games: 2d button mashing showdowns.
They are quite a bit more than that.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #2501 on: January 02, 2013, 01:04:35 PM »

dunno why you would bother responding to that

it's some kind of 4chan trollbait image
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StrictlyDominant
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« Reply #2502 on: January 02, 2013, 01:47:56 PM »

dunno why you would bother responding to that

it's some kind of 4chan trollbait image
You'd be surprised how many people in the fighting game community would believe every word of it.

Anyway, I'm not trying to derail this thread.  I have only started playing DOTA2 as of today and it is my first moba.  I have two beta keys that were given to me from a friend that I won't be using so if anyone needs one, PM me.
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alastair
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« Reply #2503 on: January 03, 2013, 02:52:43 PM »

Australian servers! no more 230ms ping delay. Although wait time is probably going to take forever.
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Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #2504 on: January 03, 2013, 03:24:51 PM »

You'd be surprised how many people in the fighting game community would believe every word of it.

you'd be surprised at how many people wouldn't be surprised
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Carrie Nation
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« Reply #2505 on: January 04, 2013, 01:19:14 PM »

What is it about people that makes them enjoy getting 20 kills on Drow and then losing because they completely ignore their team.

I have vastly more fun playing Kotl, getting wards and mek and whatnot for my team, and pulling off an organized win with 1 kill and 20 assists, why is nobody like me?
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Landshark RAWR
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« Reply #2506 on: January 04, 2013, 02:04:20 PM »

lol fgt only 1 kill? uninstall u noob
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #2507 on: January 04, 2013, 03:29:06 PM »

support is pretty fun, but if you play it often it will get on your nerves fast.

it's really demoralizing when you go the extra effort to gank lanes and ward and make it safe for your carry to farm, and then he doesn't farm or feeds.

and doubly annoying when they accuse you of doing nothing all game. it's a terribly thankless job, and incredibly insulting when you lose to a team of 5 carries who likely never ward at all.

oh and playing support against a nyx or bounty hunter makes me sad. I usually feed a whole lot or stay level 4 the entire game because I'm always hiding behind towers.
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Trevor Dunbar
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« Reply #2508 on: January 05, 2013, 06:12:43 AM »

I just got two copies of Dota 2 to chuck at people...If you want a copy give me a PM.
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« Reply #2509 on: January 05, 2013, 09:45:32 PM »

I think the internet is lying to me. Juggernaut's Bladefury supposedly does "insane amounts of damage" early game. I couldn't even farm creeps or harass Bounty Hunter/Phantom Assassin with it.

Likewise, his wards are supposed to provide enough hp regen to make them priority targets in team fights. My wards never did any relevant healing beyond like, level 3.

And it says something about Dust of Appearance countering Bounty Hunter. You'd think a team of 5 people all buying Dust of Appearance and Sight Wards would be able to take him down, then.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #2510 on: January 05, 2013, 10:04:55 PM »

How many spells can you name that does potentially 400 damage at level 1? That's why you sometimes see Juggernaut start with boots, I'll do that if I random him. Paired with a hero that has some form of slow/stun, it's generally always a guaranteed kill early on.

Bounty Hunter usually buys phase boots, and gets bonus move-speed from track. He will probably always out run you, so if you don't have stuns or a slow and the damage to kill him then dust/blue wards aren't going to help much.

The thing about Dota2 is that it requires you to use your brain. Juggernaut's spin isn't going to kill an enemy alone unless he's really dumb, and simply having vision on Bounty Hunter isn't enough to kill him. This is simple stuff, just think about it.

What are you doing harassing enemies and farming creeps with your skills? Especially something as valuable as Blade Fury. This isn't League of Legends, you're just wasting mana by doing that. Relatively few heroes can spam abilities and get away with it, and most heroes need some form of regen to keep using their spells. And if you're someone like Juggernaut who has trouble itemizing for mana regen, it's best to save your spells for when you really need it.

Learn to last hit with your auto attacks, and harass your enemies with auto attacks. Try to only use your spells if you see the opportunity to get a kill or a team-mate is going to help you. Otherwise you're going to use your Blade Fury to harass the PA then suddenly Queen of Pain ganks from mid and you have no mana or cooldown and she ults you and you die. Then you go on tigsource and whine about how useless the heroes skills are, when it's clear you really don't have a clue about what you're doing.

edit: forgot about the healing ward, which you're wrong on that as well. it heals based on a percentage of your max hp, so how does it get worse beyond level 3? as long as the enemy doesn't kill it and the ward is skilled to level 3 and you have ~700hp, you will get your entire hp pool back when you use it. AND it's an AOE so it extends to your entire team. extremely useful for doing roshan, or healing after a teamfight for a push, or farming, or just about any situation really.
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ink.inc
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« Reply #2511 on: January 05, 2013, 10:09:38 PM »

I think the internet is lying to me. Juggernaut's Bladefury supposedly does "insane amounts of damage" early game. I couldn't even farm creeps or harass Bounty Hunter/Phantom Assassin with it.

it does; just get a partner with a stun or slow (crystal maiden) and it's GG. don't use it to farm; that's a waste of mana

And it says something about Dust of Appearance countering Bounty Hunter. You'd think a team of 5 people all buying Dust of Appearance and Sight Wards would be able to take him down, then.

depends on how fed he got before you actually started buying dusts. there are also heroes who hardcounter BH (like slardar). just lay on the stuns and slows; he's super squishy.

also if you're a squishy, don't be alone
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Impmaster
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« Reply #2512 on: January 05, 2013, 10:22:42 PM »

I'm hopefully going to get Dota 2 from Trevor above, so I was wondering how powerful Rikimaru (Stealth assassin) was now. I used to play with him in dota 1, and I could usually get a ton of kills.
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ink.inc
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« Reply #2513 on: January 05, 2013, 11:00:17 PM »

Don't usually see him being played; he gets hardcountered by BH and Slardar.
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Impmaster
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« Reply #2514 on: January 05, 2013, 11:13:59 PM »

I know, my bro kept slaying me with them. Are they popular?
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« Reply #2515 on: January 05, 2013, 11:59:23 PM »

You'll find it easier at all stages of the game if you choose a ranged carry and preferably one with an escape (Mirana, huskar, weaver etc) unless you have a cool support helping you a lot.
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IzzyReggie
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« Reply #2516 on: January 06, 2013, 12:01:55 AM »

The thing about Dota2 is that it requires you to use your brain. Juggernaut's spin isn't going to kill an enemy alone unless he's really dumb, and simply having vision on Bounty Hunter isn't enough to kill him. This is simple stuff, just think about it.

This is really unfair to say, because it applies to a lot of things and it's just a random insult towards me. Like, how does Dota2 take any more usage of my brain than League of Legends or Call of Duty? It's super dum to think your game is superior than my game cos it takes so much smarts to play and that I'm playing poorly because I'm just SO DUMB.

Quote
What are you doing harassing enemies and farming creeps with your skills? Especially something as valuable as Blade Fury. This isn't League of Legends, you're just wasting mana by doing that. Relatively few heroes can spam abilities and get away with it, and most heroes need some form of regen to keep using their spells. And if you're someone like Juggernaut who has trouble itemizing for mana regen, it's best to save your spells for when you really need it.
Yes, I realized that in the first few minutes, but there were a few times where I was about to go back and needed just a bit more gold, so I'd bladefury some minions/a jungle camp trying to clear them as fast as possible. It was super slow. And Magic Stick basically provided me most of the mana regen I needed in lane, so I could afford to whiff a spin or two entirely. And I never said I was spamming it "oh, wellp, q's up. Better use it!" - no. I used it when I thought it needed to be used.

Quote
Learn to last hit with your auto attacks, and harass your enemies with auto attacks. Try to only use your spells if you see the opportunity to get a kill or a team-mate is going to help you. Otherwise you're going to use your Blade Fury to harass the PA then suddenly Queen of Pain ganks from mid and you have no mana or cooldown and she ults you and you die. Then you go on tigsource and whine about how useless the heroes skills are, when it's clear you really don't have a clue about what you're doing.
Until I got Battlefury (or whatever the cleaving axe item is called), it was difficult to last hit with auto-attacks (especially with Shadow Demon taking all of them). 50 damage or whatever Juggernaut starts with is a joke.

Quote
edit: forgot about the healing ward, which you're wrong on that as well. it heals based on a percentage of your max hp, so how does it get worse beyond level 3? as long as the enemy doesn't kill it and the ward is skilled to level 3 and you have ~700hp, you will get your entire hp pool back when you use it. AND it's an AOE so it extends to your entire team. extremely useful for doing roshan, or healing after a teamfight for a push, or farming, or just about any situation really.
I don't know what I did wrong. Maybe I am just a big dum but every time I used it it was a big waste of mana. At half hp, use it under turret and stand still completely unmolested for full duration. Don't get back to full. use it after a skirmish on the 5 of us at 50-75% life. Nobody gets to full (although I do think Gondar killed it about 3/4s of the way through the duration that time so maybe Huh?) The only time I found it useful was healing up after a few invisible Gondar attacks in the early levels, when it only had to heal up 3-4 of his attacks and maybe 1-2 from Phantom Assassin (I know, waste of cooldowns and mana and whatever)


Sorry for venting my frustration. I didn't realize somebody would take it as a personal attack. Guess I should use my brain net time  Shrug

I guess what the actual issue was, was that nobody on the team had any stuns. It was Juggernaut, Shadow Demon, Viper, Dark Seer, and Templar Assassin. As far as I can tell, that team only has slows (Shadow Demon has his Q, but you can't damage during that(I think???) and Gondar always just stealthed as soon as it wore off and got away). I guess I should have bought uh... Abyssal Blade?? right? instead of Battlefury?
How did I get the one team with 0 stuns against an enemy that required stuns to beat?

edit: Also what the heck is up with this backdoor protection or whatever? Our team was losing hard, and I had an opportunity where I was at the 35% enemy inner top tower unimpeded for like 5 minutes, and I think the tower actually gained hp from my attacks. Why. What kind of silly babby game doesn't let you backdoor? If the enemy is going to ignore you at their low health tower for that amount of time they deserve to lose that stupid tower.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 12:12:38 AM by IzzyReggie » Logged

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alastair
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« Reply #2517 on: January 06, 2013, 12:11:56 AM »

Like, how does Dota2 take any more usage of my brain than League of Legends or Call of Duty?

Tip: some games require more strategy/intelligence than others and some action/dexterity, not all games are the same!
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ink.inc
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« Reply #2518 on: January 06, 2013, 12:14:38 AM »

it was difficult to last hit with auto-attacks. 50 damage or whatever Juggernaut starts with is a joke.

you get used to it; also, quelling blade helps a lot for melee units

Also what the heck is up with this backdoor protection or whatever? Our team was losing hard, and I had an opportunity where I was at the 35% enemy inner top tower unimpeded for like 5 minutes, and I think the tower actually gained hp from my attacks. Why. What kind of silly babby game doesn't let you backdoor? If the enemy is going to ignore you at their low health tower for that amount of time they deserve to lose that stupid tower.

heroes like natures profit (lol) would be retardedly overpowered without it

How did I get the one team with 0 stuns against an enemy that required stuns to beat?

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 12:20:47 AM by John Sandoval » Logged
deathtotheweird
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« Reply #2519 on: January 06, 2013, 12:18:12 AM »

I didn't mean it as an insult, just a suggestion. If you've having problem with something in the game, sit down and think why. All your problems could have been worked around on your own just by thinking about it for a second.

As for low base damage, this is a skill you will have to learn if you ever want to play the game right. The best way to learn the (rather boring) intricacies of last hitting is to play a custom game solo with Morphling and morph strength all the way up. And just practice last hitting with super low base damage. It's a very handy skill to learn, last hitting is. And 50 base damage is pretty good, considering Juggernaut has a good attack animation.

If you're taking farming priority on your team and can't last hit well, you're really hurting your chances on winning. If you miss 50% of the cs as a carry early game, you're pretty much automatically lost if the other carry is on top of his game. This is a gross exaggeration but you should pressure yourself to get as many last hits as you can without using skills, it's super super important.

And the healing ward isn't meant to give you a gigantic blast of HP in just a few seconds. unless you can manage it well in fights, it's just going to get picked off immediately. it has a duration of 25 seconds (I think) and the reason why it heals so little is because it heals a little over a rather long time. at level4 with around 1k hp it will heal you for 1250hp. The math supports this, dunno what you're doing wrong.

TA and Viper is more than enough to catch a bounty hunter, but yeah a team with no stuns is just asking for trouble.

Battle Fury is a farming item, it's generally a good idea to never buy it unless you plan on farming a lot. And if you can't get it by 20-25 minutes don't get it at all. Abyssal Blade is good but it's hard to get that Relic, especially with a BH pressuring you all the time.
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