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[Derek]

So far this game is quite fun in co-op but it does feel a lot like a casual iPhone game at its core.

[alastair]

How many people here play HC? I'll probably give it a try after I've finished the game in normal mode.

The problem is, Diablo 3 isn't designed for Hardcore due to the fact you have to play through "normal". Imagine if every time you started up a roguelike you had to sit through a 2 hour long tutorial, when you just want to get to the fun part (the harder modes).

[Capntastic]

Imagine if every time you started up a roguelike you had to sit through a 2 hour long tutorial, when you just want to get to the fun part (the harder modes).

There are quite a few roguelikes out there that have a shallow slope of progression.  Even ADOM, which is usually touted as being one of the top three out there, has you doing the same set of trivial little quests each time you start a new game.  Get the puppy, help the carpenter, etc.

As much fun as I and and many others would have if Hardcore Mode had a straight up endless dungeon you couldn't backtrack in, forcing you to descend further and further until you died, it's fundamentally not that sort of game.

Yeah it kind of sucks that you have to play through normal mode before you get to anything challenging, but given how gear-based the game is, I don't really see that as a categorically bad thing. 

A compilation of HC mode deaths a friend linked me had two or three of the 6 deaths taking place in Normal mode.

[Blademasterbobo]

not to mention some of the hard enemies are only hard because they can instantly kill you (some bosses do this and it's not even avoidable)

[Dragonmaw]

so far the most times i have died have been in nightmare when getting stuck against a rare that has ridiculous attributes. extra health + shielding? vortex + arcane? say goodbye.

also apparently inferno was more along what is now hell difficulty and they ended up making it like 4x harder. and by harder i mean one-shot everything

[Nillo]

So is there a way to hide all non-magic items that drop? The only time I pick them up is by accident.

[C.A. Silbereisen]

So is there a way to hide all non-magic items that drop? The only time I pick them up is by accident.

why do nonmagic items even drop? do they have ANY real purpose at all?

in d2 you actually had to be careful which items you picked up in coop because your inventory would clutter up fast and you might have missed out on rares and uniques and shit. in d3 this is never a problem (or at least hasn't been for me as of yet) because your inventory is so huge.

[Taylor]

Well, and in Diablo 3 you don’t have to fight for all the rares and uniques and shit because everything that drops on your screen is yours. Blizzard stopped whites being salvageable in beta and stated they didn’t want them fulfilling any purpose but adding to the spectacle of loot piñatas.

so far the most times i have died have been in nightmare when getting stuck against a rare that has ridiculous attributes. extra health + shielding? vortex + arcane? say goodbye.

also apparently inferno was more along what is now hell difficulty and they ended up making it like 4x harder. and by harder i mean one-shot everything

I think Diablo 3 is harder than Diablo 2 once you hit hell difficulty (controversial?). Especially if you’re a melee class and you’re navigating through the fireballs, gloop and laser beams like it’s goddamn Gradius to do a couple of swings at an elite. However, Inferno is hard in all the wrong ways; everyone knows the enemies hit like trucks, but the real problem is Elites now have four mods and some of these combinations are borderline impossible.

[Nillo]

why do nonmagic items even drop? do they have ANY real purpose at all?

They had a purpose in D2 since back then you could put sockets in them with a quest or a cube recipe (and then make a runeword or something). In D3, though, I have no clue. They sell for a pitiful amount of gold so in every situation it would be less work to just go find another gold pile than to sell the stuff. 

[The Monster King]

the saddest thing about white items is that they're the only ones that can have certain keywords like masterwork etc

those keywords are totally useless, by the time you're level 4 you won't ever want to pick up something that isn't blue

the items are kinda boring by the way, there aren't really many new keywords and effects, you'd think they'd allow themselves to have the items branch out a little and do more special stuff, but it ends up being "oh which of these items gives me the most of my primary stat"

[Bandages]

No secondary effects is kind of lame, but they got rid of that shit in WoW around Burning Crusade so I think Blizzard is done with that one and has been

[Capntastic]

Someone on SA pointed out that the white and grey items exist solely to ram home the psychological effect of when you do find a blue or yellow.  I'm inclined to believe it.

[st33d]

Junk is integral to the inventory management game.

By adding junk you get level 1 loot whilst the player is learning movement mechanics. Then it steps up a notch to identifying junk among the gems you have collected. It teaches being choosy.

The lack of bonus skill items is disappointing. It makes spellcasters in this version very limited, you can't really hope for loot to add more exotic abilities, you have to grind.

[Bandages]

Meh. Fuck Diablo 3 I'm done until the game gets PVP.

It's not clever. There's no way to be creative. Okay, there's pretty lights and instant rewards and hitting things feels good, but nothing about how you play is creative. If you think choosing a build takes creativity and makes the gameplay any more fun than I don't care if you disagree, because you're stupid.

When I play stuff like Dota or TF2 (to a much lesser extent) or pen and paper stuff, gameplay is about being creative with how you play. You have to constantly problem solve. In Diablo there are no problems to solve. You click around and click on things and the story doesn't matter and everything's on rails and mobs have three strategies and boss fights are tank and spanks.

That doesn't make it particularly engaging. Hopefully PvP will change that because that is at least somewhat of an activity that takes wits. So until then, I guess :I

[ink.inc]

^thats why i dont like the genre in general

[Taylor]

Unless they plan on overhauling the classes at some point the PvP will be WoW-levels of bad.

[Capntastic]

It's not clever. There's no way to be creative. Okay, there's pretty lights and instant rewards and hitting things feels good, but nothing about how you play is creative.

The same could be said for any Mario game.  I don't think player creativity is required for a game to be good, categorically.  If you want to make a case for that, go ahead, but don't predicate your entire argument on it.

I do find it interesting that you discount the idea of different builds adding to gameplay entirely, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

And then of the three go-to examples you come up with for games that invoke creativity, TF2 is one of them.  This is what leads me to think you haven't fully thought out your reasoning behind disliking D3.

I'll be the first to say D3 has a terrible sub-vestigial plot, uninspired enemies and zones, etc.  But I never expected anything different, and I specifically bought the game to be a mindless game to goof off with friends in.

[Bandages]

The same could be said for any Mario game.  I don't think player creativity is required for a game to be good, categorically.  If you want to make a case for that, go ahead, but don't predicate your entire argument on it.

Platforming and operating on multiple planes instead of a single flat one takes a bit of thought to maneuver through instead of clicking along in linear paths. Not to mention it takes a marginal bit of dexterity.

I do find it interesting that you discount the idea of different builds adding to gameplay entirely, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

Just a bit of a inflammatory speech. Maybe not stupid, but all you're really doing is picking what will happen when you click. It changes nothing about how you click or anything. If the abilities and runes really significantly changed gameplay, then sure, they'd allow for creativity. But as the game stands, all you do is slightly modify a series of spells that all do the same thing between all the classes, only slightly differently.

PvP may make the builds more relevant to being successful, hopefully.

And then of the three go-to examples you come up with for games that invoke creativity, TF2 is one of them.  This is what leads me to think you haven't fully thought out your reasoning behind disliking D3.

I think out of a lot of FPS's, TF2 rewards how you maneuver and how clever you can be more than, say, Counter Strike or Halo or CoD. It's fun to play, because when you play against other people, they force you to adapt and outwit them. At least, that's my experience. Certainly, in an FPS that creativity is diminished by the fact you're really not doing a whole lot (although all objectives are pretty much map-related. There are no "kill X members of the enemy team to win" game types)

It's pretty shallow in terms of how creative you can get, which is why I've played it maybe twice since picking up Dota 2, but it does reward ingenuity, which is why it's on my list.

I'll be the first to say D3 has a terrible sub-vestigial plot, uninspired enemies and zones, etc.  But I never expected anything different, and I specifically bought the game to be a mindless game to goof off with friends in.

Aye, and it's a great mindless game, but mindless just don't cut the mustard compared to other games, I'm afraid.

I feel like a broken record, but PvP will hopefully fix all that. Or maybe I'm just fearful that I spent $60 on a game that I have no interest in after about 10 hours of play.

[Capntastic]

Platforming and operating on multiple planes instead of a single flat one takes a bit of thought to maneuver through instead of clicking along in linear paths. Not to mention it takes a marginal bit of dexterity.

Manual dexterity isn't creativity.  You're reachin' hard.

And I don't know what you mean by the runes and different abilities not modifying gameplay.  As a monk I can choose what mantra to use, be it life regain or dodge buffs or enemy debuffs, or I can slot in a summonable buddy to punch things, and what element that guy does, and what his special attack is.  I can combo a passive that gives me chance to dodge with the mantra to give me chance to dodge with a melee attack that gives me a chance to dodge, and make a dodge-based build that changes how I 'play' the 'game'. 

Mario doesn't have that- jump is always going to be jump and maybe sometimes you'll be able to shoot fireballs, but they will always behave the same.

TF2's inventory is much the same- different equipments just change what happens when you click.  Yeah sometimes in TF2 you'll change what you're doing to break an enemy's defense or whatever, but that is literally required in a game where you're playing against an enemy team.  D3 is fundamentally PvE, and while there's going to be PvP, I don't think many people expect it to be the meat of the game.  Either way, I wouldn't call adapting to the enemy's tactics 'creative'.  Whenever I play TF2 it boils down to "oh they have sentries up, better play as demoman" or similar if/thens.  Believe it or not, in D3 you can change your tactics in much the same way.

All I'm really saying is that you're sort of being inconsistent in stating why you dislike the game.  You've jumped from stating what problems you actually have with it to hucking attacks at it. 

Regardless, I'm sorry you bought a game you don't like.

[Bandages]

It makes sense and feels consistent to me, so I'm probably just unable to articulate my thoughts well enough.

I guess my mental input just doesn't feel as relevant to the game's output very much? And moving around does take a bit of creativity. You have to think about where you're going and why, not just clicking madly into a cloud of enemies and mashing buttons.

And it's not a waste of money yet, just a risky investment