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May 24, 2013, 04:08:25 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesDiablo 3 O_o !!
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Taylor
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« Reply #495 on: May 26, 2012, 03:41:27 PM »

Unless they plan on overhauling the classes at some point the PvP will be WoW-levels of bad.
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Capntastic
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« Reply #496 on: May 26, 2012, 04:05:44 PM »

It's not clever. There's no way to be creative. Okay, there's pretty lights and instant rewards and hitting things feels good, but nothing about how you play is creative.

The same could be said for any Mario game.  I don't think player creativity is required for a game to be good, categorically.  If you want to make a case for that, go ahead, but don't predicate your entire argument on it.

I do find it interesting that you discount the idea of different builds adding to gameplay entirely, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

And then of the three go-to examples you come up with for games that invoke creativity, TF2 is one of them.  This is what leads me to think you haven't fully thought out your reasoning behind disliking D3.

I'll be the first to say D3 has a terrible sub-vestigial plot, uninspired enemies and zones, etc.  But I never expected anything different, and I specifically bought the game to be a mindless game to goof off with friends in.
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Castle
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« Reply #497 on: May 26, 2012, 04:23:23 PM »

The same could be said for any Mario game.  I don't think player creativity is required for a game to be good, categorically.  If you want to make a case for that, go ahead, but don't predicate your entire argument on it.

Platforming and operating on multiple planes instead of a single flat one takes a bit of thought to maneuver through instead of clicking along in linear paths. Not to mention it takes a marginal bit of dexterity.

Quote from: Capntastic
I do find it interesting that you discount the idea of different builds adding to gameplay entirely, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

Just a bit of a inflammatory speech. Maybe not stupid, but all you're really doing is picking what will happen when you click. It changes nothing about how you click or anything. If the abilities and runes really significantly changed gameplay, then sure, they'd allow for creativity. But as the game stands, all you do is slightly modify a series of spells that all do the same thing between all the classes, only slightly differently.

PvP may make the builds more relevant to being successful, hopefully.

Quote from: Capntastic
And then of the three go-to examples you come up with for games that invoke creativity, TF2 is one of them.  This is what leads me to think you haven't fully thought out your reasoning behind disliking D3.
I think out of a lot of FPS's, TF2 rewards how you maneuver and how clever you can be more than, say, Counter Strike or Halo or CoD. It's fun to play, because when you play against other people, they force you to adapt and outwit them. At least, that's my experience. Certainly, in an FPS that creativity is diminished by the fact you're really not doing a whole lot (although all objectives are pretty much map-related. There are no "kill X members of the enemy team to win" game types)

It's pretty shallow in terms of how creative you can get, which is why I've played it maybe twice since picking up Dota 2, but it does reward ingenuity, which is why it's on my list.

Quote from: Capntastic
I'll be the first to say D3 has a terrible sub-vestigial plot, uninspired enemies and zones, etc.  But I never expected anything different, and I specifically bought the game to be a mindless game to goof off with friends in.
Aye, and it's a great mindless game, but mindless just don't cut the mustard compared to other games, I'm afraid.

I feel like a broken record, but PvP will hopefully fix all that. Or maybe I'm just fearful that I spent $60 on a game that I have no interest in after about 10 hours of play.
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Capntastic
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« Reply #498 on: May 26, 2012, 04:39:14 PM »

Platforming and operating on multiple planes instead of a single flat one takes a bit of thought to maneuver through instead of clicking along in linear paths. Not to mention it takes a marginal bit of dexterity.

Manual dexterity isn't creativity.  You're reachin' hard.

And I don't know what you mean by the runes and different abilities not modifying gameplay.  As a monk I can choose what mantra to use, be it life regain or dodge buffs or enemy debuffs, or I can slot in a summonable buddy to punch things, and what element that guy does, and what his special attack is.  I can combo a passive that gives me chance to dodge with the mantra to give me chance to dodge with a melee attack that gives me a chance to dodge, and make a dodge-based build that changes how I 'play' the 'game'. 

Mario doesn't have that- jump is always going to be jump and maybe sometimes you'll be able to shoot fireballs, but they will always behave the same.

TF2's inventory is much the same- different equipments just change what happens when you click.  Yeah sometimes in TF2 you'll change what you're doing to break an enemy's defense or whatever, but that is literally required in a game where you're playing against an enemy team.  D3 is fundamentally PvE, and while there's going to be PvP, I don't think many people expect it to be the meat of the game.  Either way, I wouldn't call adapting to the enemy's tactics 'creative'.  Whenever I play TF2 it boils down to "oh they have sentries up, better play as demoman" or similar if/thens.  Believe it or not, in D3 you can change your tactics in much the same way.

All I'm really saying is that you're sort of being inconsistent in stating why you dislike the game.  You've jumped from stating what problems you actually have with it to hucking attacks at it. 

Regardless, I'm sorry you bought a game you don't like.
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Castle
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« Reply #499 on: May 26, 2012, 04:43:14 PM »

It makes sense and feels consistent to me, so I'm probably just unable to articulate my thoughts well enough.

I guess my mental input just doesn't feel as relevant to the game's output very much? And moving around does take a bit of creativity. You have to think about where you're going and why, not just clicking madly into a cloud of enemies and mashing buttons.

And it's not a waste of money yet, just a risky investment  Tongue
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Capntastic
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« Reply #500 on: May 26, 2012, 04:49:05 PM »

I think what you're trying to get at is that all of the classes are sort of just "hit buttons to kill guys" and there's not much variance in that, and different builds just change how you kill guys.
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Castle
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« Reply #501 on: May 26, 2012, 04:49:41 PM »

Yes. And that killing guys isn't fun because I don't really have to try or think or even use just a liiittttle bit of problem solving because it's all so terribly similar.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #502 on: May 26, 2012, 04:56:47 PM »

if you don't like killing enemies in a variety of ways then why are you playing an ARPG

that's like saying "i don't like first person shooters. there's too much shooting."

edit: also if you are saying that you "don't have to think to kill guys" you haven't played nightmare and above because once you start reaching elites with 2+ abilities you start to actually get tested.
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Castle
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« Reply #503 on: May 26, 2012, 04:58:12 PM »

Because I am a sucker, and because I'm waiting for the peeveepeugbfgoughcoughxough
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saibot216
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« Reply #504 on: May 26, 2012, 05:20:32 PM »

Fans of Diablo 1 and 2 say D3 is a soulless flashy piece of garbage, made for the casual teenager crowd.

It's got issues alright. But it's definitely not a shit game.

Stop being such a snob and enjoy yourself for once in a while.
I played the second Diablo, and though there are differences present, I still think it's a great fun game Smiley
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crowe
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« Reply #505 on: May 26, 2012, 06:56:22 PM »

edit: also if you are saying that you "don't have to think to kill guys" you haven't played nightmare and above because once you start reaching elites with 2+ abilities you start to actually get tested.

I think if you have to replay a game on hard intially locked difficulties to be challenged that is a problem maybe
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Castle
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« Reply #506 on: May 26, 2012, 07:47:37 PM »

Never made it past Act 2 on normal, so that might be it

But it wasn't fun and I had no drive to do so, so meh
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alastair
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« Reply #507 on: May 26, 2012, 08:04:20 PM »

"but it gets good later in the game!" - everyone ever
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #508 on: May 26, 2012, 09:00:14 PM »

edit: also if you are saying that you "don't have to think to kill guys" you haven't played nightmare and above because once you start reaching elites with 2+ abilities you start to actually get tested.

I think if you have to replay a game on hard intially locked difficulties to be challenged that is a problem maybe

yeah normal is too easy

however you can't really reach max level by playing normal alone so it's pretty obvious that you are supposed to play through the difficulties in order (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno). so if you think you are replaying the game you are sorta wrong. it's more like one long game that has cycling environments
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« Reply #509 on: May 26, 2012, 09:48:51 PM »

Quote
so if you think you are replaying the game you are sorta wrong. it's more like one long game that has cycling environments
Does it force you to do all the story stuff again, exactly the same as it was the first cycle, or do you get to choose which quest/whatever you can go to like the beta had? Or does Nightmare+ ignore the story entirely and let you just mash your way through everything?

If you have to do the story stuff again it's playing through the game multiple times. If it drops the story stuff and you just run through the same environments then yea, cool, I can accept that.

The major problem I guess would be having to do the dumb stuff like "kill this man's wife that he has locked in the basement' and 'go to adria's old shack to unlock the next gate' or whatever I was doing in the beta.

edit: I can't even remember if killing the dude's zombie wife was a side quest or not, but if it's a thing you got to do 4 times?? screw that
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 09:54:48 PM by IzzyReggie » Logged

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