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[increpare]

Anyway, wouldn't it be a bit redundant to include Flash? Do you think there is anyone who would look up this list that would not already know of Flash? Also, I thought Flash was basically a language with a particular focus on graphics. Can it do physics and networking out of the box, or are there Flash-based frameworks that provides all trappings of a full game engine?

can do networking out of the box, yeah.  No physics, though.

Flixel would fit your definition of engine (has physics built in, lots of entity/sprite class stuff), flashpunk is more modular, it might not.

I think it's good to focus on 3D.  Eveyone knows about the various 2d engines by now (And there are many good ones), but for 3d most people here roll their own or use unity, so it's more interesting to see what's out there (and there just aren't as many really robust 3d engines out there).

[tametick]

I think it's good to focus on 3D.  Eveyone knows about the various 2d engines by now (And there are many good ones), but for 3d most people here roll their own or use unity, so it's more interesting to see what's out there (and there just aren't as many really robust 3d engines out there).

Yep, might be better to have 2 separate threads.

I just came in here to see if there was anything worthwhile I didn't know about, and since I don't really care much about 3d I was disappointed to see nothing in here for me (maybe change the title to "3D Game Engines for Indie Developers"?).

[rivon]

I also agree. Make 2 threads.

[Hima]

Thank so much for writing this. I'm currently using Unity but would like to explore other tools too. I don't like Unity that you don't have the control over the source so like you, I'd prefer open source as well. I'll be trying Panda 3D. I actually have heard of it for a long time now but never really got to try it.

Also, agree with the others that you should make another thread for 2D. I don't think you should include Flash though, since it's pretty redundant. To me, Flash is almost equal to AS3, so when telling someone to use Flash is like telling someone to use C/C#/Java without telling more about what libraries they should use. If you're going to analyze Flash then it's better to analyze libraries or tool to help make game based on Flash/AS3 like Flixel, FlashPunk or Stencyl.

[Klaim]

BEWARE : After having read this thread, few days ago I installed the last stable version of Panda3D on Wind 7 64bits. I discovered today that it removed all previous entries in my Path environnement variable. 

The bug have been reported and filed for some time but not fixed yet. The problem is that not everyone gets it. So if your read this thread, you might want to save your path infos somewhere before installing Panda3D.

I didn't try it yet but the documentation is interesting.

[Mikademus]

You mean it cleared your %path%? Wow... Well, I really hope that bug will be fixed asap! Great catch, thanks for reporting! Hope it didn't cause too much inconvenience for you


@Hima: Thanks for the feedback, and glad my survey was of help for you! I could write a similar thread for 2D game engines, I guess, but truth to be told I am making mostly 3D and simply don't know much about full-featured 2D game engines... Perhaps someone else more knowledgeable than me could write a sister thread to this one?

[Klaim]

To be precise it did set my Path variable to the panda3D binaries paths ONLY, that's why I identified that it was Panda3D that did this.

The bug is not fixed yet but marked as high priority : https://bugs.launchpad.net/panda3d/+bug/668255

[Schwiggy]

To be precise it did set my Path variable to the panda3D binaries paths ONLY, that's why I identified that it was Panda3D that did this.

The bug is not fixed yet but marked as high priority : https://bugs.launchpad.net/panda3d/+bug/668255

Does that mean it doesn't affect your Panda projects but it makes it impossible to build anything else until you fix it or does it mean that nothing at all can be compiled until it's fixed?
 
It's been awhile since I've used a compiler (2 years ago with Netbeans + Java to build stuff like JMonkey) and I'm curious about how easy this is to fix and what it affects.

[Klaim]

I didn't try Panda3D yet, but when i tried to use another project with Visual Studio, the application couldn't find a dll that was installed somewhere but accessible only via the path. That's the problem : any application that requires another dll that was in the path (but system/win32 it seems) will just not execute.

[Falmil]

If only Panda3D had a level editor, I think it would be pretty much perfect. Looking through the forums, it looks like there have been many failed attempts at one. I kinda wonder if Blender could me modded/scripted to function as such without a whole lot of work involved.

[rivon]

Maybe irrEdit could be used for this task. You would only need to write a loader for the .irr files.

Edit: or just rewrite the one in the Irrlicht engine to use Panda API.

[Falmil]

Yeah, that sounds like a better idea. I just want more general use tools and formats.

[flavio]

I kinda wonder if Blender could me modded/scripted to function as such without a whole lot of work involved.

Yes, it's a common solution. You can build your levels with Blender and export them to Panda, and you can use empty nodes and logic fields to create other (gameplay) information you might need.

[Falmil]

I've also heard of this but never really seen how its done or to what extent it serves as a decent editor. I guess the main thing needed is visual placement of 3D models, but considering everything Blender can do, I am unaware how much of that could be exportable and readable in someway by Panda3D.

[flavio]

Yes, that's true, anyway every modelling tool provides a set of features which is a superset of what a (realtime) 3d engine can manage, it is not a Panda-specific problem. Typically the artist has to know which features he can't use. And Panda provides a tool (pview) which can be used by artists to see how their assets are visualized by the engine.

[Mikademus]

Yeah, that sounds like a better idea. I just want more general use tools and formats.

The upcoming 1.8 version (get it from the dev repo if you can't wait) have full COLLADA support, so you can use any tool that can export collada, and there's gotta be a bunch of level editors for that.

[Schwiggy]

What do you think of C4 Engine? This article from today on DevMaster.net claims

The C4 Engine is a top-rated professional game engine for PC and Mac that is available to indie developers with full source code at a low cost.

http://www.devmaster.net/news/index.php?storyid=2761

The article includes a link to their demo page and it is some pretty impressive stuff. It has your average stuff like physics, shaders, portal systems, networking, and then things that you don't usually see like voxel terrain and a script editor with flowcharting.

It's essentially $350 per person that uses the engine directly - a lot lower than Unity's 1500 dollar price tag to be fully featured. I'm not saying it's better, but it looks like a viable option to me.

[Mikademus]

What do you think of C4 Engine? This article from today on DevMaster.net claims

The C4 Engine is a top-rated professional game engine for PC and Mac that is available to indie developers with full source code at a low cost.

http://www.devmaster.net/news/index.php?storyid=2761

The DevMaster and Wikipedia articles seems to be written by Eric Lengyel, the owner of Terathon and writer of C4, and seems very positively biased and advertising. That said, though, C4 seems very competent, and its main drawbacks seems to be that there is only one person behind it, that there are few known titles released with it, and limited platform support (principally Win/OSX only).


I've added two more engines to the tabulation: the C4 Engine is commercial and Delta3D is open-source. C4 builds on OpenGL only, while Delta3D builds on OSG, which is a very competent scene graphed renderer. C4 is mature and capable, but seems to implement its own solutions for game engine facilities and with limited platform support. Delta3D integrates a number of stable and mature open-source libraries for all its needs (input, network, physics, etc) and seems highly portable and is well worth checking out for anyone looking for FOSS game engines.

Also started to update tabulation with links.

Name	Licence/Price	Supported Platforms	Scope, Intent and useage	Pros	Cons
=====	=====	=====	=====	=====	=====
C4 Engine	Commercial per-seat licences only. •   Basic $100 •   Normal $350 •   Pro $1200	•   Win, OSX •   PS3 w. special licence	Complete game solution	•   Well-featured. •   Full source access with all licences except for basic. •   Mature: commercial since 2005.	•   Somewhat expensive, all licences per-person. •   Developed by one person. •   Home-rolled facilities? •   Few significant games developed with engine. •   Few supported deployment platforms.
-----	-----	-----	-----	-----	-----
Delta3D	Open-source LGPL (Editor source under GPL)	Fully platform independed, OSG 3.0 supports Win/OSX/Linux/*NIX/iOS/Android/PlayStation	Complete game solution. Integrates open-source solutions behind common interface.	•   Wide platform support. •   High portability factor. •   Wide range of libraries included. •   Uses highly reliable FOSS systems	Lags behind OSG somewhat (3.0 support not done as of Oct 2011).

[moi]

I think cryengine is free for indies now, isn't it?

[Mikademus]

CryENGINE Free Use
You can use CryENGINE 3 for free in educational facilities, even if you are charging tuition. We have always offered our engine for free to educators, but now individual students can also freely download the engine and use if to learn about real-time 3D development.

CryENGINE 3 is also free for non-commercial use; if you are distributing your game or application for free (and not charging for your work in producing it, whether directly or indirectly), no additional license is required.

CryENGINE 3 Independent Developers Platform
We want you to make games with CryENGINE 3 that people will want to play. We hope that your work will lead to a product you can commercialise. If this is the case, before you can sell your work or your game, you must seek a development license for CryENGINE 3.

CryENGINE 3 for Indy Studios & Downloadable Games
Crytek has attractive options for smaller games built with CryENGINE 3, with shorter development timescales. If you want to move your game onto platforms other than PC, or you need access to CryENGINE 3 source code, please contact Crytek to find out more about our licensing for Independent Studios.