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April 23, 2014, 04:16:04 PM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsHellas - greek vases v21
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Author Topic: Hellas - greek vases v21  (Read 38128 times)
eigenbom
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« Reply #210 on: August 12, 2012, 11:42:59 PM »

Haven't played this in a while so though I'd give it a shot. You're definitely making some good progress. Here's some feedback! Smiley

No mouse please! For the god controls, why not have the hand automatically pick you up as soon as you activate the power and then use the move keys to move it around and the attack key to drop the player? For the lighting attack, you could use the move keys to select one of the enemies on screen and attack key to bring the lightning down (or cancel to cancel it.)

Personally I would like a jump key that isn't the up arrow or 'w'. Ideally it should be right next to the attack key.

The frame rate seems quite low, and so movement feels staggered.

I can run and attack and almost never get hit by a skeleton. Maybe running into a skeleton should have the effect of a weak hit on the player?

Where's the close button on the window? :D
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #211 on: August 14, 2012, 03:19:52 AM »

Thanks for the feedback! Smiley

Quote
I can run and attack and almost never get hit by a skeleton. Maybe running into a skeleton should have the effect of a weak hit on the player?

That is a problem. I prefer to have the skeletons not hurt on touch (except through falling damage), but I'm going to need to do some tweaks here. The goal should be that if you run straight at an alerted skeleton (that's facing you) and simply attack without blocking dodging or anything, you lose.

Quote
No mouse please! For the god controls, why not have the hand automatically pick you up as soon as you activate the power and then use the move keys to move it around and the attack key to drop the player? For the lighting attack, you could use the move keys to select one of the enemies on screen and attack key to bring the lightning down (or cancel to cancel it.)

I want to keep the mouse for 2-player (hero + god) co-op, but I've thought about having a hotkey-based alternative for solo hero players. I can't just have it pick up the player because GRAB can also be used on enemies or physical objects (rocks, spears). A solution would be to let the player cycle through possible targets as you describe for the lightning-power, though depending on the number of objects it might be too slow...

Quote
Personally I would like a jump key that isn't the up arrow or 'w'. Ideally it should be right next to the attack key.

Customizable controls are planned for later. For the time being though I could make 'Z' an alternative jump key, put drop/cancel on 'C' and have 'SHIFT' be the only bash button(s)...

Quote
The frame rate seems quite low, and so movement feels staggered.

Not sure what to do about that other than general clean up (which I try to do as I go along). There might be some gains as well if/when I switch to GM Studio (early tests seem promising but current version crashes for me, so not yet).

Quote
Where's the close button on the window? :D

This is an option you can toggle in GM. I forget why I turned this off... I suppose I thought it looked nicer without, but really it doesn't make much difference and isn't worth the loss in functionality. Fixed in the next version.
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eigenbom
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« Reply #212 on: August 14, 2012, 02:08:04 PM »

Oh I didn't realise you could pick up enemies with the hand of god, that sounds like fun. Hmm ... well maybe you could just disable the hand of god altogether in solo play and replace it with something else (e.g., icarus wings for 10 seconds, or am i mixing my roman and greek mythos?! Tongue)

I really like the option of having the hand for a two player mode, where one player solely controls the hand and the other the warrior. Although to keep it fun for the other player you'd need the hand of god to be permanently in the scene, although maybe it powers up with kills etc until it can actually do things, left-click for grab, right-click for lighting bolts?

Yeh, not sure about the frame rate, but I have a fairly good machine so I bet something in there is going wrong.
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #213 on: August 15, 2012, 01:32:12 AM »

The heroes/gods-dynamic is central to the game so I definitely want to keep that in both single- and multiplayer. Powers are limited right now, but eventually there will be different gods, each with different powers.

Icarus' flying has been covered extensively in other games, so I don't really feel I have anything to add to that. If I were to do a level on the Daedalus and Icarus myth it would be a one-off thing, not a core mechanic.

Honestly it's hard not to mix Greek and Roman myth because they are mostly the same stories and characters, and sometimes the only surviving version is the Roman, but Icarus is Greek originally.

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although maybe it powers up with kills etc until it can actually do things, left-click for grab, right-click for lighting bolts?

This sort of already exists in the sacrifices mechanic (each power costs wine or sheep that the hero collects) but I'm thinking of having kills also count as a sacrifice if your god is Ares (war), with the blood-thirst and all. There will be more than two god powers so I can't get around the radial menu or hotkeys.

The frame rate worries me a bit. The game runs fine on my laptop which is not exactly the fastest of systems. Keeping an eye on this.
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #214 on: August 28, 2012, 02:15:15 AM »

So I've been working on the god powers for player 2 and some various improvements: one of them adding the Windows buttons back in (minimize, maximize, close), but it turns out if you re-enable this it causes the game to freeze any time you use the ALT key (which I've got mapped as an alternative for "drop/cancel").

I didn't make the connection at first but this thread proved illuminating. If I have to choose between window buttons and being allowed the ALT key, having an X top right doesn't seem worth it. You can always quit with ALT-F4 or ESC, or toggle full-screen with ALT-ENTER...
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #215 on: September 02, 2012, 05:04:34 AM »

One year ago today I made the first post in this devlog... shortly before that first post the game looked like this, now it looks like this:



I've made some progress, but lots to do still, so back to work! Grin
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eigenbom
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« Reply #216 on: September 02, 2012, 02:40:46 PM »

Wow congrats on sticking with it for so long! My 1 year moonman anniversary is coming up soon!
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r0ber7
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« Reply #217 on: September 04, 2012, 03:05:33 AM »

Happy anniversarium!

 Coffee

I think I keep coming back here because there are sheep.  Smiley
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #218 on: September 04, 2012, 05:26:46 AM »

As good a reason as any! Thank you both. Gentleman
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Dugan
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« Reply #219 on: September 05, 2012, 10:59:30 AM »

Still looking great- keep up the good work!
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #220 on: September 08, 2012, 03:39:41 PM »

Thanks! ^^

New version:



Download: http://www.ninjadodo.net/temp/hellas/hellas_v16.zip

New video: http://youtu.be/QxFTAz7exVc

I've added gamepad control for player 2 and separated sacrifices in Versus so that now both players can use divine powers against each other. This works in co-op and versus.

What this means is that you can now have a fully symmetrical game of versus with player 1 alternating between keyboard and mouse for hero and god control, and player 2 on gamepad for both... P1 is keyboard-only for now but I will try to have double gamepad support in the next version.

Tested this with a 360 controller.


Next version: I will try to add scoring and victory conditions.
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #221 on: September 15, 2012, 02:57:00 AM »

Technical sidenote: I'd been using a wired 360 controller which I bought years ago for testing initially, but as I was about ready to wrap up version 16 I went out to buy an additional controller so could I build support for double gamepads later, this one wireless. Strangely enough I couldn't get the new gamepad to work with the game at all.

Now I'm not sure if this is specific to Game Maker or to Windows, but it turns out if you have a wired 360 controller installed and later install the drivers for a wireless controller, it ALWAYS thinks the wireless is controller #2 even if it's the only controller plugged in. GM supports only two controllers so I ended up just checking for both joystick_exists(1) and joystick_exists(2) making whichever one is there gamepad #1.

That worked.

Something else I hadn't mention before: A few versions ago I simplified the co-op cam back to a single lead player. As I was testing this in version 13 by myself the semi-shared camera seemed to work reasonably well (controlling only 1 of 2 players at a time), however when subjected to a proper 2-player co-op test the camera was jerky and confusing, focus constantly switching back and forth.

It turns out (perhaps rather obviously) you really can't fake playtesting conditions, or rather: fake conditions = fake results. I've since changed the co-op cam to simply focus on the lead player, so if one dies, focus shifts to the surviving player, but the camera follows only one player at any given time.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 04:52:48 AM by Ninja Dodo » Logged

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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #222 on: October 19, 2012, 07:55:45 AM »


And... version 17



Download: http://www.ninjadodo.net/temp/hellas/hellas_v17.zip

Bunch of changes in this version. Both players can now use gamepads and I've added scoring and a victory condition (10 helmets) to Versus-mode. I made some adjustments to the skeleton AI jumping and blocking and rewrote slope collision to be more robust (fixing a few bugs in the process).

You can now pick up vases with the GRAB-power (though they break when dropped from any height). I've gone back and forth on this because it doesn't really serve a purpose, but it is more consistent that anything not nailed down can be picked up. The one scenario where it could be useful is if you want to prevent your opponent from getting a sacrifice and you lift it into the air right from under their nose. Otherwise useless for collecting since it also costs a sacrifice to use the power.
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Ninja Dodo
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« Reply #223 on: October 26, 2012, 02:07:36 PM »

Minor update:

Download: http://www.ninjadodo.net/temp/hellas/hellas_v17_1.zip

- Changed the way blocking interacts with spears: It's harder to throw over a block now unless you're really throwing from above... and there were some instances where attacks were not getting blocked when they should. This should be fixed.

- On each kill in Versus a player receives +1 shield (health) if hurt to give the surviving player a better chance against their respawning opponent. So you take the helmet and shield of your fallen enemy... which is thematically appropriate if Homer is any indication. I'm considering making this more literal by having actual helmet and shield pickups that drop on death which you have to collect to claim your point and health.

- Lowered amount of starting sacrifices to 2, plus minor changes to sacrifice spawning... Haven't really even begun to balance any of this stuff. Probably going to change a lot as I go along.

- And finally added a sound for lightning.

I got some useful feedback as well yesterday at the Local Multiplayer Picnic in Utrecht which I will be pondering as I work on the next version...

Also got featured in this week's TIGS Devlog Magazine! Grin
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 08:34:15 AM by Ninja Dodo » Logged

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r0ber7
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« Reply #224 on: October 28, 2012, 12:16:58 PM »

You're dutch? Ik ook. Smiley Nice progress you're making. I'll keep myself informed.  Coffee
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