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[VDZ]

It also introduced me to Fate: Zero and Sengoku Basara: Samurai Kings, which both felt pretty lackluster and suffered bad from DBZ season 5 syndrome. Both were all about the battles, and the battles were like:

Talk talk talk battle talk talk battle talk talk talk talk battle talk talk battle battle talk talk talk talk battle talk talk.

Can't you be like a 20th century anime, where you talk and battle at the same time, ffs?

That's because Fate/Zero has, you know, actual plot. It's actually the complete opposite of DBZ, where a single fight takes at least 10 episodes and is completely littered with trash talking, with neither the plot nor the action progressing at all. Fate/Zero is very plot-heavy (not advisable to watch it mainly for the action), pretty much everything that's said is plot-relevant (Waver/Rider antics aside, but those are awesome), and the fights are short and to the point; I can only recall a single battle that lasted more than one episode (or two battles, depending on whether you count the chaos that ensued when all Servants met for the first time as a single fight).

The problem was simply in your expectations, Fate/Zero just isn't action-heavy. I'm not expecting plot from Lucky Star, suspense from Hyouka or long philosophical conversations from Hellsing either.

[Cobralad]

or long philosophical conversations from Hellsing

You dont say that. Anime, which says that catholic church was created 2000 years ago have no right to be considered smart by normal people.

[agersant]

or long philosophical conversations from Hellsing

You dont say that. Anime, which says that catholic church was created 2000 years ago have no right to be considered smart by normal people.

I'm not expecting

[Cobralad]

 

[baconman]

There's a plot hiding in there somewhere? One that isn't just "about the battles," you say? Elaborate a little. Just a little. Proof of concept. A little YouTube clip would be valid as well.

Hard as I may have been on that show, I gotta hand it to this girl, whoever she be:



She pulled off an AMAZING Saber, right down to the hair, sword length and detail, and bodily proportions. Plus, there was a live performance of the show's theme song, unquestionably the most awesome part of the show to me.

[VDZ]

There's a plot hiding in there somewhere? One that isn't just "about the battles," you say? Elaborate a little. Just a little. Proof of concept. A little YouTube clip would be valid as well.

There is a lot of plot in there, mainly regarding the reasons the characters are taking part in the Holy Grail War. The main plot, which is slowly spread out over the first half of the series then very clearly focused upon near the end of the series (starting out with two full flashback episodes) is Kiritsugu's desire to save people and the consequences it has.

Major spoilers regarding scenes near the end of the series which were awesome plot-wise:
Kiritsugu is a firm believer in the 'sacrifice one person if that means saving ten people' principle. After plot stuff happens that kills everybody he grew up with he's adopted by a mage hunter, Natalia (who got him into the whole 'killing some to save many' thing). At the end of the flashback arc, many years after Kiritsugu and Natalia have been living together, one of Natalia's mage hunting missions on a plane goes wrong and the plane ends up full of the Nasuverse equivalent of zombies. Kiritsugu is tasked with guiding her to a safe landing as she locks herself away in the cockpit to steer the plane to get to safety. Kiritsugu sticks to his principles, and this happens. Unfortunately the linked video doesn't show the best part of it, which is Kiritsugu breaking down in tears after having to sacrifice a loved one to save many.

Completely at the end of the series, when Kiritsugu is almost able to use the Grail to fulfill his wish of having a world without evil, it is explained that the Holy Grail can only fulfill wishes in ways the user understands, but are outside of the user's power. Kiritsugu gets a vision where he is shown the true nature of his wish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PyoNtRUqts&t=9m05s (continues into part 2 of the episode. Very long scene, but the idea should become clear not long after the start of the scene)
He realizes that the only way for the grail to cleanse the world from evil in a way he understands would involve killing people over and over and over until there is nobody left to save. Realizing that the grail can only cause harm (the grail basically causes as much damage as it does good, so the greater the wish the worse the destruction), Kiritsugu gives his lasts commands to Saber.

Notable subplots include Kotomine finding a (rather twisted) meaning to his life, Kariya trying to save Sakura from her terrible fate, Rider's (King of Conquerors), Acher's (King of Heroes) and Saber's (King of Knights) different approaches to kinghood (which gets an entire episode just for that, and becomes a major plot point in one of the latest episodes), plus some other stuff. In addition to all that, it explains many things about questions left unanswered by Fate/stay night (the visual novel; the anime series had only a fraction of its content), the work it's a prequel to.

[baconman]

So it only gets up to speed about 10 episodes in, huh? Not exactly a mark in it's favor, but I suppose I could be a bit more patient about it. Would you regard Stay Night as better, by chance?

[VDZ]

The anime series? Absolutely not. They're pushing one third of a HUGE visual novel, plus some more, into 24 anime episodes. It just doesn't work. The third of the VN (Fate) they animated was also the most action-y part, too.

The visual novel is divided into three storylines: Fate, Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel. Fate is mostly about the battles and is a fairly ordinary story about magi and Servants fighting for the holy grail. UBW has some twists happening that take the focus somewhat off the action and focuses more on the characters, although it still has a significant amount of battles. Heaven's Feel has most battles take place outside of the protagonist's viewpoint (using third person narration rather than the usual first person narration) and being rather short and one-sided due to certain plot reasons that are unclear at first, and it focuses strongly on the plot, mostly about the origin of the Holy Grail War and the three main families that started the whole thing.

Fate/Zero does start with plot, though, especially at the very start you get tons of info dumped on you, mainly major spoilers about Fate/stay night that you need to know to understand the story of Fate/Zero. I can understand it wouldn't look like it from the perspective of someone who hasn't read f/sn, though - for example, Kariya bitching at Zouken for using the Matou magic on Sakura holds little meaning to someone who doesn't know from Heaven's Feel what the Matou magic is and what it does to people (and what a cruel bastard Zouken is).

[baconman]

Indeed. But overall, the manga is where the real meat is at, huh? Isn't it always...

TYVM for your insight! I'll be sure and check that out when I have more productivity time to kill...

[Garthy]

VDZ: To someone who enjoys visual novels, would you recommend the Fate/stay night visual novel (which I have seen recommended by others), followed by watching the Fate/zero anime? Or some other combination?

[VDZ]

Indeed. But overall, the manga is where the real meat is at, huh? Isn't it always...

TYVM for your insight! I'll be sure and check that out when I have more productivity time to kill...

No, no, not the manga. 'Visual novel' as in 'PC game consisting only of clicking through text'.



The manga is bad, offensively so. At least the anime tried to portray the events of Fate well, but I once made the mistake of buying volume 1 of the manga and I seriously regret ever buying it.

VDZ: To someone who enjoys visual novels, would you recommend the Fate/stay night visual novel (which I have seen recommended by others), followed by watching the Fate/zero anime? Or some other combination?

Definitely. The VN is considered a classic, it's currently the 5th highest rated game on VNDB with a score of 8.92 (average)/8.90 (weighted), and it's rated 90 (median)/86 (average) on EGS.

I'm not sure what the consensus on the Fate/Zero anime is (it became too popular and people started hating on it just because it was popular), but if you liked f/sn after reading it, it's definitely a must-watch. Just make sure not to watch the first episode of f/z before completing f/sn, as it's full of f/sn spoilers.

[Garthy]

VDZ: To someone who enjoys visual novels, would you recommend the Fate/stay night visual novel (which I have seen recommended by others), followed by watching the Fate/zero anime? Or some other combination?

Definitely. The VN is considered a classic, it's currently the 5th highest rated game on VNDB with a score of 8.92 (average)/8.90 (weighted), and it's rated 90 (median)/86 (average) on EGS.

I'm not sure what the consensus on the Fate/Zero anime is (it became too popular and people started hating on it just because it was popular), but if you liked f/sn after reading it, it's definitely a must-watch. Just make sure not to watch the first episode of f/z before completing f/sn, as it's full of f/sn spoilers.

Cheers for that. I'd watched the Youtube link you'd given, and thought "maybe I should check this out"? But I'd also heard the VN was worth checking out too, and I didn't want to spoil the visual novel by checking out the anime.

Well, that's a visual novel and an anime on my TODO list then. Thankyou.

[nekokoneko]

I'm not quite sure what the appeal of Fate stay night is, i found it to be a bit of a joke really.

Any series that is trying to be serious and have people murdering each other for the grail shouldn't have a girl being stupidly fucking coy about her pants getting seen as shes chasing someone with every intent in killing him.

Fate Zero doesnt make light of itself and is just an allround well produced anime, id recommend f/z over fsn (anime, no idea what the VN is like for FSN)

[John Sandoval]

[John Sandoval]