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[Droqen]

I had an interesting chat with some Toronto game devs; it wasn't about anything in particular, but rather about cloning in general and how it's generally a shitty thing. It was also about how one of us thought there were far too many game devs who seem entirely okay with cloning.

Anyway, here we go. I'm going to list four games. In my eyes, a single pair of them have an ORIGINAL-CLONE relationship although many of them have been accused of being such.

INFINIMINER

MINECRAFT

TERRARIA

FORTRESSCRAFT



MINECRAFT IS AN INFINIMINER CLONE was the first accusation to be thrown around, and it's entirely false! To this day I have no idea how people cling to that argument.

Infiniminer was an interesting team-based competitive mining thing with lava and explosions. People built crazy stuff, and while it wasn't the goal, they did it all the same.

Minecraft started out as a vague little engine that took from Infiniminer the platform on which it laid: 3d and block breaking, making. It was a big deal, sure, but even in creative mode it had a focus on building, and a wide variety of blocks, and pretty generated maps.



I don't even really want to talk about Terraria/Minecraft. I don't enjoy Terraria at all but that's just me (really, it's just me). They share even fewer similarities than the above two.



OKAY AND THEN THERE'S FORTRESSCRAFT

Here is what I actually care about at all. This game released as a clone of Minecraft: its style is exactly the same. It stole, blatantly, just about everything that made Minecraft successful despite planning 'in future chapters' to add new stuff.



This is a bad thread about me venting because I'm not yet ready to send the guys who made FortressCraft a "you guys are basically terrible people I hope you know that" e-mail.



To make this thread an actual thing for discussion, read this!

I think cloning is terrible, regardless of how much success it acquires. However, when something like FortressCraft makes a million bucks, it kinda infuriates me to see a clone do well.

If it's a "clone" that has its own idea and simply takes cues from another? Cool. That's fine, and not nearly a clone. In the case of Terraria, it's clear that even if the guy was inspired by Minecraft, there are a lot of elements of the game's own. It also plays radically differently. (Same with Infiniminer -> Minecraft, really, just without the perspective & dimension shift)

Hell, even if it's a "clone" that expands upon an idea -- before it's sold and presented as its own full game, not 'planned for future developments' -- that's cool, too. Take an idea and, even if it starts off as clone, if you take it in a nice, new direction? Even if it sucks, if you're trying your own thing, I support.



If it's a "clone" that is a copy of a game with inconsequential added details (i.e. fortresscraft has ropes and hand-held torches from the trailer i saw a million years ago, which are incredibly minor details in the grand design of things) or even with lost design (i played the worst clone of Star Guard (amazing game) a while back, called Space-Ninja or something. it was horrible), it has no purpose. It should not exist, and it should not be sold for moneys.

It's ironic and disappointing and clearly makes sense that the people who do this kind of cloning are generally in it for the money.



Don't stand for the mindless, heartless kind of cloning that exists and seems wholly accepted. Do you care about it at all? Am I overreacting? I don't think so: if we don't take a mental stand against the bane of creativity that is cloning -- we, who gather around games because we actually care (in our own little ways) -- I don't know who will.

(hahaha this one is the worst)

[boxedlunch]

But what if i prefer fat ninjas instead of fisherman?

[Jasmine]

MINECRAFT IS AN INFINIMINER CLONE was the first accusation to be thrown around, and it's entirely false! To this day I have no idea how people cling to that argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9t3FREAZ-k

In the words on Notch:

This is a very early test of an Infiniminer clone I'm working on.

[thatshelby]

MINECRAFT IS AN INFINIMINER CLONE was the first accusation to be thrown around, and it's entirely false! To this day I have no idea how people cling to that argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9t3FREAZ-k

In the words on Notch:

This is a very early test of an Infiniminer clone I'm working on.

It started out as one, but it's evolved into something different.


EDIT:

Here's something to kickstart the discussion...

This is mentioned a lot. How far do you have to go before it becomes a clone?

[leonelc29]

for my thinking, if people cloning a game for the sake of learning(without selling it, of course), is okay for me, as most of us done this when creating our 1st game or when we start to develop game. and if cloning a game for the sake of money, then that should not be taken lightly.

there's one post from me at Facebook which sound like this:

so, there's people say that cloning people game with only minor change (graphical, name, with little bit feature addon) is ethical. is it normal to say this? or the one that say it is actually the one that copy? cloning people thing without making money is kinda acceptable. but cloning people thing and sale it on the platform that the developer are about to get into, that's ethical? is that what a developer suppose to respond on cloning?

this particular post is respond to the post that respond to the ninja vs radical.

cloning is not actually creatively bankrupt, but is ethically bankrupt, which shorten into TERRIBLE PERSON.

[Droqen]

This is a very early test of an Infiniminer clone I'm working on.

It's an early test of a clone, and he calls it such.

He doesn't say This is MINECRAFT!, my infiniminer clone -- it's a video of something (I think that's from a video? even if it's not, it's fine.) he's messing around with; he says he's working on a clone, and that's cool. I'm assuming his intention was never to claim it as his own if he ended up simply making a clone: it was likely just an idea that interested him enough to make his own engine to play around with.

Anyway, he never even got to finishing his infiniminer clone. It was an early test of a clone, and that early test branched into his own game.

[Jasmine]

This is mentioned a lot. How far do you have to go before it becomes a clone?

I think it's about intention.

If my game happens to be like your game, even though I've never seen your game, then my game is not a clone. Similarity is coincidental.

In just the same way, two stories can be very similar, but one isn't necessarily a clone of the other, if the intention to clone wasn't there.

On the other hand, if I had seen your game, and my intention was to produce a game exactly like it, then that would be a clone. Cloning involves deliberately copying details, rather than choosing details for oneself.

There is also an area inbetween, where I use ingredients from your game, but have my own ideas about how I want to cook them. That isn't cloning; it's being inspired.

There's an old saying in the movie business: Using ideas from only one source is called plagiarism; Using ideas from more than one source is called research.

[Riley Adams]

Uncanny timing... I've been working on this for a few days as a little programming challenge:

Two clones in one!




As I said it's mainly just a programming challenge, and will probably end up abandoned in a corner of my hard drive soon enough... I might experiment with making a game of it though (minus Minecraft textures and whatnot of course), a Portal-style physics puzzle game with easy Minecraft-y map editing could be interesting...

[C.A. Sinner]

On the other hand, if I had seen your game, and my intention was to produce a game exactly like it, then that would be a clone. Cloning involves deliberately copying details, rather than choosing details for oneself.

Yup. It's about the details.

If you wanted to make a game similar to Minecraft, you could just copy the core mechanics and fill in the blanks with your own ideas (e.g. Terraria). There's no reason to also copy the graphics style, controls, crafting system etc. of Minecraft verbatim unless you're making a clone.

[Droqen]

I think it's the details that close enough to 100% of the time prevent accidental parallel clones from happening.

Even if you have the exact same idea as someone else somewhere else, it will turn out differently enough unless you are, in fact, copying them (consciously or unconsciously).



If it did happen, I wouldn't fault either creator, of course, not even the one who came second. I'd be skeptical, though.

[allen]

Do you care about it at all?

don't give two fucks. not even one fuck actually. clones are bad, whatever, some games are called clones but aren't and that's lame, but whatever. I'm not going to spend more than a bored passing thought on the subject.

Am I overreacting?

yes

[Droqen]

BUT ALLEN

I WANT YOUR FUCKS

they are like crack

[Gimym TILBERT]

most game look like clone nowaday, not a big deal.
However I think the block aesthetics is a big element in the gameplay of that genre minecraft promote, it makes hard to break from an overall "already seen" feeling.

[Droqen]

clones are not "already seen" feeling and "block aesthetics", gimmy!

[Alevice]

Uncanny timing... I've been working on this for a few days as a little programming challenge:

Two clones in one!




As I said it's mainly just a programming challenge, and will probably end up abandoned in a corner of my hard drive soon enough... I might experiment with making a game of it though (minus Minecraft textures and whatnot of course), a Portal-style physics puzzle game with easy Minecraft-y map editing could be interesting...

Actually I would be inrigued to see such a clone. It would make mining easier, haha.