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[baconman]

well, the whole point of the poorly make-up stuff i mention early is to ask :if people stole your creation and sell it with only minor twist(which still look the same, play the same) and lower price(like 80% lower), and getting rich and famous with it, what will you feel? rage? happy? either way, it's cool.

It's funny you mention this, because the project that first got me into gamedev happened to be a Street Fighter/Fatal Fury fangame made on a hacked-together, barely-there DOS remake of the SF2CE engine. This was back in '94-'96, back when CD-ROMs were optional PC components, USB was practically nonexistent, and 56k was HIGH-SPEED internet. It had ugly lifebars/superbars and ran a whopping 20-25 FPS, but was it fun!

Back then, P1 and P2's move sequences were coded seperately, and a small group of buddies - a programmer, a guy that's good with BG's, a sprite-ripper, some MIDI files and very basic SFX, and another guy and I who did character script encoding, basically hacked 6 Fatal Fury Special characters into SF2. We then later modified the select screen for 8 of each side. Players could hold select to choose the P2 variation of the movesets, which were specifically altered for different versions of the characters (specifically like the then-godly KoF '96 or SFA/Super Turbo or just some other weird variant of them) although we never did get the pallete thing working right; second colors meant second entire spritesheets back then.

Well, low and behold, 1999 comes around with the profound launch of Capcom vs. SNK. A version that focuses very heavily on Fatal Fury 2 and Street Fighter 2 characters in particular. And check out this other nifty thing; there's "EX characters" with these alternate movesets. ^.^'

My feelings of being in that boat personally, are kinda mixed. I mean, I wish our efforts were more fruitful, or at least considered relevant experience professionally. So there's a little disappointment in that. But then, it was a fangame based on THEIR games and characters in the first place... so they're actually entitled to doing what they did. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, or so they say; and the fact that something a group of then-mostly-teens-including-me did went on to become a major-selling blockbuster - that's a pretty stellar feeling if I do say so myself. And I do.

If nothing else, it goes to show that I can design and script on a superpro level. Now I just need to get the rest of the package in gear. Or at least a level of reasonably-competent. Just gotta remind myself - it only looks like a lot of work until it's actually done.

EDIT: BY THE WAY, THE GAME WAS FREEWARE, NOT SOLD.

[mirosurabu]

I claim is that as long as both make money out of their games, you can't really say who is doing it only from a business side and with only money in mind, and who is a doing this because of love of gaming or whatever.
[...]
It is more likely a tool to use against people you don't like, for whatever reason and to glorify those you do like.

You can. Just by talking to all the different developers, you can learn all the different approaches to game design, and then you can see all the different "tells" that are specific to all the different approaches. Using this knowledge you can then spot 'tells' in other games and see through development process.

Of course, the level of certainty will vary from game to game, but at times you can safely accuse people for being too business-oriented. I have no opinion on FortressCraft, but I can easily tell that Gamenauts are business guys who really only care about running a business.

[leonelc29]

@baconman
i don't know is it fair or not in that case, since it's like i-steal-your-art-you-steal-my-design stuff. i don't know, you might be in the different case though.

[PompiPompi]

I claim is that as long as both make money out of their games, you can't really say who is doing it only from a business side and with only money in mind, and who is a doing this because of love of gaming or whatever.
[...]
It is more likely a tool to use against people you don't like, for whatever reason and to glorify those you do like.

You can. Just by talking to all the different developers, you can learn all the different approaches to game design, and then you can see all the different "tells" that are specific to all the different approaches. Using this knowledge you can then spot 'tells' in other games and see through development process.

Of course, the level of certainty will vary from game to game, but at times you can safely accuse people for being too business-oriented. I have no opinion on FortressCraft, but I can easily tell that Gamenauts are business guys who really only care about running a business.

I really doubt you can tell.
Maybe foul mouthed, arrogant developers who mock the indie scene and love money have more passion for games than that nice friendly guy, who cherish the indie spirit and give interviews with his other indie friends about aspects of design and etc but didn't really work on his own game for a while. While others did for him.

I am not convinced you can tell who "only cares about the money" and who has "the indie spirit".

[Droqen]

Notch is somehow this developer with belevolent motives

hee hee. I never said that, and I'm not going to. He seems nice and fine to me, but I don't really have any strong opinions on, uh, who he is.

I didn't think you ment it's bad to make money, I think that judging a game developer by what are his true intentions\thoughts\feelings\whatever about game creation, is wrong and misleading.
It is more likely a tool to use against people you don't like, for whatever reason and to glorify those you do like.

This is a very interesting point -- I don't agree with the first part, but I think the second is important. I'm definitely not trying to scapegoat here and I'm a little terrified I might be, to be honest.

The FortressCraft developers are doing something that I would never do outside of for its monetary merits (which means I wouldn't do it) but maybe it's really just what they wanted to do! There are many things I'd rather not do as they'd have to start off being a valueless clone; my loss? Maybe.

I am not convinced you can tell who "only cares about the money" and who has "the indie spirit".

You can often tell from statements. You can't always, and conclusions should never be drawn too soon (even though they always are).

Still concerned about scapegoating, I'd like to point out that as a desired quality it doesn't matter if it's measurable. If we admit that there's sometimes no way to be sure, how then do you feel about that feature?

I think you're very concerned about the actual outcome of holding such an opinion (which is, granted, probably the most important part) while I've been blindly chasing the simple, well, moral of it I suppose.


Oh, last thing:

Maybe foul mouthed, arrogant developers who mock the indie scene and love money have more passion for games than that nice friendly guy, who cherish the indie spirit and give interviews with his other indie friends about aspects of design and etc but didn't really work on his own game for a while. While others did for him.

I have no doubt.

[mirosurabu]

I really doubt you can tell.
Maybe foul mouthed, arrogant developers who mock the indie scene and love money have more passion for games than that nice friendly guy, who cherish the indie spirit and give interviews with his other indie friends about aspects of design and etc but didn't really work on his own game for a while. While others did for him.

I am not convinced you can tell who "only cares about the money" and who has "the indie spirit".

That's up to you. My suggestion is to talk to various developers or at least listen to what they have to say. Then, this would make better sense.

Arrogance and friendliness have little to do with it though. Lots of passionate people are accused for being arrogant and lots of friendly people only really care about making contacts.

And I'm not talking about "indie spirit", just passion in general. I'm also not claiming that people who love money can't love games. That's stupid.

My point is that you can tell when people really only care about money.

[Gimym TILBERT]

I still do't get Fortresscraft was about money. The game was release on XBLIG a platform notorious for sales that can't sustain a dev, the FC dev himself believe it would not sustain him even after the great start because it was still below decent money. Now the game might have break even, but it doesn't look like it was because of chasing money. It does not make any sense.

[Gimym TILBERT]

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2011/09/who_needs_ios_zelda_when_there.php

[st33d]

The next iOS developer I meet who has used a virtual joystick for their game, I'm going to carve a virtual joystick with a hunting knife onto their fucking head.

They're shit.

They don't fucking work.

Stop doing them.

[C.A. Sinner]

Tru dat.

Also lol@terrible bland vector graphics.

[Samtagonist]

[JWK5]

I now know what I must do. The Legend of Zolda, Matroid, Super Murio Bros., Super Slash Bros., Pipmin, Sunic the Hedgehog, Final Fontasy...

I will be a creative genius!

[leonelc29]

mycraft, empty-life, empty-life 2. and HUNTER BLADE! already did that? ohh...

[Paul Eres]

it's kinda sad tho that the top 4 best-selling xblig games are:

fortresscraft (minecraft clone)
breath of death vii (dragon quest clone)
remote masseuse (massage game)
i made a game with zombies in it (original arena shooter)

[wademcgillis]

I like games where you can clone things.