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[Paul Eres]

it's true that apple did improve when he was with them, but it's also true that all the business ventures he attempted during the 10 years that he was gone from apple failed

it seems strange to judge his greatness only by how well apple did when he returned, and not by how poorly his non-apple companies did (to say he was responsible for his successes but not responsible for his failures)

[Irock]

I didn't know Pixar was a failure.

[eigenbom]

from indie developer to steve jobs rant ...

[peanutbuttershoes]

A lot of the stuff he did that wasn't successful was bought by Apple when he returned to Apple and then integrated into Apple products and services.

The iTunes store and mobileMe were built off of tech he was in charge of while at NeXT.

The NeXTcube flopped. But I totally would have bought it if I had the cash... and if I was alive.
It was a stinkin cool concept.

[Irock]

Additionally, failure is almost inevitable when you're trying to succeed. It's valuable because you come out more knowledgeable. That applies to almost anything, from games to computers to cooking- you have to fail to succeed.

[Paul Eres]

I didn't know Pixar was a failure.

steve jobs bought pixar long before he was kicked out of apple, and from what i know, he never had any direct involvement in pixar, he just owned it

[PompiPompi]

The point is, he is not single handledly responsible for Apple's success. Who knows, maybe some Junior engineer had the great idea of making a phone tablet, maybe some people at the "creative department".

No, it was his idea to make a multi-touch phone.

There's a reason Steve Jobs is regarded so highly. Either he, Apple and everyone he ever worked with have conspired to make it seem like Steve Jobs is heavily involved when he's not, or it's actually true. I think it's the second one.

Well, if you look at smart phone history. You will find there were touch screen phones way before the iPhone. So not only it wasn't his idea, it wasn't apple's idea as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

[Paul Eres]

he said multi-touch -- e.g. recognize two fingers at once. it's true that iphone was the first phone to recognize two fingers at once (which allows for a little more versatility than recognizing only one finger). it's not a huge advance, but it was an advance

but regarding "There's a reason Steve Jobs is regarded so highly." -- maybe, possibly, that could be because he was rich and powerful? anyone rich and powerful is going to have a lot of people regarding that person highly, no matter how bad of a person they are. it's a bit recursive to say that he must be a great leader because he was rich, and that he was rich because he was a great leader

[PompiPompi]

he said multi-touch -- e.g. recognize two fingers at once. it's true that iphone was the first phone to recognize two fingers at once (which allows for a little more versatility than recognizing only one finger). it's not a huge advance, but it was an advance

but regarding "There's a reason Steve Jobs is regarded so highly." -- maybe, possibly, that could be because he was rich and powerful? anyone rich and powerful is going to have a lot of people regarding that person highly, no matter how bad of a person they are. it's a bit recursive to say that he must be a great leader because he was rich, and that he was rich because he was a great leader

Sure, but he wasn't the one coming up with the idea of a tablet phone, like was claimed before.
My opinion is that Steve Jobs was good at what he did. He was indeed above average in his job. But, I think there are many people like him or even better than him that are simpley not in the same position as he was. That is why I think he is not as good as he is regarded, and it's a combination of being good and in the right position.
To be honest,I am in the opinion that a lot of people are not very good at their job, both engineers and managers. That is why when someone is good it seems like he is a genius. The truth is, these good workers are not that good as much as everyone else are so bad.

Anyway, back to the original topic. Sometimes being good is not enough, you also need to be in the right position.

[Ichigo Jam]

I think the big innovation of the iphone's touch screen was that it was designed to be used with your fingers rather than a stylus. The multi-touch was a nice bonus.

There's an interesting article about Steve Jobs here.

[st33d]

touch devices without multi-touch are painful to use, it's not a nice extra, it's essential

[TeeGee]

I know that Jobs and Apple are such profound subjects, not to mention heavily underrepresented on the internet, but how about them unknown indie game developers?  

[Christian Knudsen]

The who on the whatnow?

[Tumetsu]

I know that Jobs and Apple are such profound subjects, not to mention heavily underrepresented on the internet, but how about them unknown indie game developers?  

Well, isn't reaching the status of Jobs someday a dream of every unknown indie? 

[Moczan]

I know that Jobs and Apple are such profound subjects, not to mention heavily underrepresented on the internet, but how about them unknown indie game developers? 

Well, isn't reaching the status of Jobs someday a dream of every unknown indie? 

If that's the case I don't want to be labelled indie, never.