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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsBirdyWorld again
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droqen
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« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2011, 10:46:18 PM »

whoa that is awesome (the hammer chain reaction thing)
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Craig Stern
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« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2011, 06:40:01 AM »

Oh, yes! I remember loving this game from Assemblee! Do you want music? Because I will compose the heck out of some music for this.
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Conker534
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« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2011, 11:36:21 AM »

This looks awesome.  Smiley
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Fifth
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« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2011, 03:45:02 PM »

Why, I will most certainly need some music!

What format do you typically compose in, though?  I'm primarily interested in sequenced music right now (which would I guess be tracker-format stuff), so as to be able to adjust the tracks during play to suit the needs of the area.  It's something I've always wanted to toy with.
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« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2011, 05:59:59 PM »

Okay, question time.

So, I'm trying to figure out how to approach the enemy placement system, and I was wondering what kind of opinions people had about how it worked in the old BirdyWorld?  (If you don't remember, it had these skull icons (and one treasure icon) at the bottom which you would click to add to this egg, which upgrade it to a higher-level monster.  You'd then click on the map to drop the egg there, which would break and leave the monster.  When all the skulls were spent, you'd get to place the treasure.)

So I'm just wondering if this process, simple as it was, was interesting enough to hold onto?  Was the act of adding skulls and seeing the upcoming treasure interesting enough to give it a benefit over just picking enemies from a list?

I would say it would benefit from more info/transparency to the process (like being able to see what enemy would result from the current egg before placing it, or to the to-be-augmented egg before adding more skulls), but I was fond of being able to see the screen's strife level strewn into a row like that, and of the feel of adding them...
Additionally, I want to ideally have a few different classes of monsters (standard, trap, and specialty, along with environment-specific variations of each), but could probably manage that with a simple category switch...

Anyway, thoughts?
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Terrorbuns
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« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2011, 06:23:11 PM »

The old system certainly worked well! It was fun to decide between spamming tons of weaker enemies or use fewer stronger enemies! (At least that's how I remember it working it's been forever xD)

You should expand on it for sure though! Experiment with a few ideas and see what works and what doesn't.
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J. R. Hill
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« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2011, 06:26:26 PM »

If I remember right, the requirement for upgrading/adding more monsters had to do with the "level" of monsters in neighboring screens right?  Something like the sum of half the levels of neighboring screens, though the maximum seemed semi-random.  I remember it being a fun-but-time-consuming mechanic, if you were dead set on leveling up the environment.  I also remember that it sort of broke down in dead-ends, corridors, etc.
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« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2011, 06:59:19 PM »

All of this correct.

I guess the whole strife system could do with an overhaul, huh?
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J. R. Hill
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« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2011, 09:11:05 PM »

The core idea behind it was definitely cool.  And even though it was time consuming, it was fun enough that I did it a lot.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 10:07:40 AM by J. R. Hill » Logged

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Craig Stern
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« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2011, 08:24:07 AM »

Sorry, just saw your reply to my offer of music!

What format do you typically compose in, though?  I'm primarily interested in sequenced music right now (which would I guess be tracker-format stuff), so as to be able to adjust the tracks during play to suit the needs of the area.

I actually got started composing using MODPlug Tracker back in 8th grade; I usually saved my work as .it back then. It's been a long time since I used that format, but I could probably pick it back up again without too much trouble if I had to.

That said, if all you want is the ability to mute tracks selectively, I could easily just compose some stuff for you and export each track as an individual waveform that you can play simultaneously, muting each at will.

Shoot me a PM and we can hash out the details. Smiley
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« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2011, 11:38:14 AM »

I occasionally google Birdyworld because that game made me so happy.  So I'm very excited to see that you're re-making it like this.  Like REALLY super excited. 

One thing I liked about the enemy placement system was that it was sort of a surprise what you got for different numbers, at least when you first started playing. I liked the eggs, but maybe each enemy egg could have a different pattern to make remembering each of them a little easier.

As far as the strife system is concerned, I do remember it being intuitive but slightly tedious. Maybe some combination of how far away the room is from the starting point, plus how many rooms there are total on the map (to prevent people from just plunging into the abyss in a straight line for the greatest treasure) would determine how much there was available in that room. Could be sort of the same thing for a dungeon: the farther away it is from the entrance, plus the more rooms in the dungeon, the greater strife there is until you can place the boss. 

I feel like making players compete might reduce the world-building aspect into some sort of contest of efficiency.  Part of the joy of the first iteration was building pointlessly thematic stuff, like forest lakes and villages.  When you start adding competition into the mix, it increases the impetus to be effective/efficient, which doesn't necessarily spur creativity.

But I'm kind of a grumpy old man about change, so take that with a grain of salt.
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droqen
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« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2011, 02:15:54 PM »

It'd be kind of cool if rooms had donation boxes, where you could give coins to people who made nice maps. Nothing obtrusive, just a little placeable object. People could even design little challenge areas with the reward box at the end, for the hell of it.
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moonmagic
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« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2011, 11:51:02 PM »

It'd be kind of cool if rooms had donation boxes, where you could give coins to people who made nice maps. Nothing obtrusive, just a little placeable object. People could even design little challenge areas with the reward box at the end, for the hell of it.

I love this idea. Yes.
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Ashkin
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« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2011, 11:55:36 PM »

It'd be kind of cool if rooms had donation boxes, where you could give coins to people who made nice maps. Nothing obtrusive, just a little placeable object. People could even design little challenge areas with the reward box at the end, for the hell of it.

I love this idea. Yes.
Seconded. It would be annoying to have to place it physically though- would it fit on the HUD as just a tiny box that you click to drop a coin in? Or maybe you could just have a plain ol' + button.
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« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2011, 10:15:28 PM »

Its a great concept and a nice art style.
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It's all good.
droqen
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« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2011, 05:04:01 PM »

It'd be kind of cool if rooms had donation boxes, where you could give coins to people who made nice maps. Nothing obtrusive, just a little placeable object. People could even design little challenge areas with the reward box at the end, for the hell of it.

I love this idea. Yes.
Seconded. It would be annoying to have to place it physically though- would it fit on the HUD as just a tiny box that you click to drop a coin in? Or maybe you could just have a plain ol' + button.

I would like to say (as the initial human) that I'd much prefer a physical object to a + on the HUD or something otherwise removed from the level!

Obviously there's been nothing to hint that it'd even make it in, but. In case it does.
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Fifth
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« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2011, 11:18:46 PM »

Donation box, huh?

It might be possible, but I think I've already used up every space in my tileset.  I might be able to work something in, though.  I also don't know quite how I'll be handling individual players' information, so we'll see what happens.

It is a pretty neat idea, though.  It would make for a nice bit of player interaction.

That does remind me that I promised I'd make it so you can see each screen's author, though.  I'll have to remember to save some room on the HUD for that.

I occasionally google Birdyworld because that game made me so happy.  So I'm very excited to see that you're re-making it like this.  Like REALLY super excited. 

One thing I liked about the enemy placement system was that it was sort of a surprise what you got for different numbers, at least when you first started playing. I liked the eggs, but maybe each enemy egg could have a different pattern to make remembering each of them a little easier.

As far as the strife system is concerned, I do remember it being intuitive but slightly tedious. Maybe some combination of how far away the room is from the starting point, plus how many rooms there are total on the map (to prevent people from just plunging into the abyss in a straight line for the greatest treasure) would determine how much there was available in that room. Could be sort of the same thing for a dungeon: the farther away it is from the entrance, plus the more rooms in the dungeon, the greater strife there is until you can place the boss. 

I feel like making players compete might reduce the world-building aspect into some sort of contest of efficiency.  Part of the joy of the first iteration was building pointlessly thematic stuff, like forest lakes and villages.  When you start adding competition into the mix, it increases the impetus to be effective/efficient, which doesn't necessarily spur creativity.

But I'm kind of a grumpy old man about change, so take that with a grain of salt.

Well, I already put together another little algorithm for the strife (similar to last time: the farther from home, the higher the danger), but I do like the idea of basing it off of the number of screens placed so far.  If I can find an elegant way to work that in, I'll try and do so.

And I'm kinda already decided about the multiple teams idea.  If it really doesn't work, I should be able to scrap it, but I think it should be a fun thing to try.

Sorry, just saw your reply to my offer of music!

What format do you typically compose in, though?  I'm primarily interested in sequenced music right now (which would I guess be tracker-format stuff), so as to be able to adjust the tracks during play to suit the needs of the area.

I actually got started composing using MODPlug Tracker back in 8th grade; I usually saved my work as .it back then. It's been a long time since I used that format, but I could probably pick it back up again without too much trouble if I had to.

That said, if all you want is the ability to mute tracks selectively, I could easily just compose some stuff for you and export each track as an individual waveform that you can play simultaneously, muting each at will.

Shoot me a PM and we can hash out the details. Smiley

Awesome, good to hear!
Overall, I would still prefer sequenced music, if possible.  I'm just fond of it over streamed formats like mp3.
But I'm afraid I can't really give you any real direction for what I'm looking for music-wise until I'm a little further in the development.
Sorry about that.
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« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2012, 01:43:40 PM »

And I'm kinda already decided about the multiple teams idea.  If it really doesn't work, I should be able to scrap it, but I think it should be a fun thing to try.

That's cool, the more I think about it, the more faith I have that people will still design interesting stuff regardless of total efficiency. Plus, y'know, don't let the players design your game and all that. We don't know what we want, haha.
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« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2012, 10:32:04 AM »

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« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2012, 01:57:50 PM »

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