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eigenbom
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« Reply #3280 on: October 05, 2015, 08:28:08 PM »

Them doors for midgets are awesome! You gotta have some important gnomes disappear into them at some point!
"Come back here gnome!! Ahh, he went in the little door!"

Great idea. A room full of tiny doors, with little gnomes that open them and throw molotovs out. :D
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eigenbom
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« Reply #3281 on: October 08, 2015, 09:53:18 PM »

Update: I wrote up a big Kickstarter update last week, and totally forget to cross-post something here. You can read the KS udpate if you're interested, but to cut a long story short, all the physical rewards from the KS have now been sent out.

This week I've been working on a few disparate things:

- I've applied for an arts grant from Film Victoria. If successful, the funding will go towards Moonman development and allow me to expand the team -- hopefully bringing back the completion date as a result.
- I've been working on the design of the backgrounds a little (see below).
- I've been organising the resources/block lists for the other 3 areas. This involves putting everything into a big excel spreadsheet and arranging the elements in the resource flowcharts I've been using. (see belower)





I've also been drafting and thinking about a few different concepts, like overworld maps and distribution of difficulty. I've probably created too many mockups for the overworld map, but I went ahead and did more. The first one is not really a serious contender, but it turned out as an interesting piece of pixel art nonetheless..



The second one is more in line with the feel of moonman. This was mocked up super quick, but has a more appropriate feel to it.



World Generation and Difficulty: A Potential Model

In terms of difficulty distribution, I'm now at a point where I have to make certain decisions about the structure of the full game. I've always thought that the forest is an early area, and is relatively easy: the enemies are weak or sleeping, the terrain is fairly crumbly and easy to get through, there are no poison death pits of lava, and so on. In the same line of reasoning, the volcanic area was always going to be hard. However, the structure of the game was never intended to be linear and so there isn't necessarily a simple ordering of areas, like Forest -> Mountain -> Volcanio.

With this in mind, I've come up with a few basic ideas:
- regions will have a natural difficulty
- regions will have a difficulty range
- moonman starts in an easy region
- neighbouring regions shouldn't jump in difficulty by too much
The world generator would then use these ranges and constraints to build a complete world. As an example, imagine four regions with difficulty levels in the following ranges.


Difficult
Easy <----------------------------------------> Hard
1           2          3           4          5

[--Town---]
[--------Forest-------]
         [--------------Mountain-------------]
                                [---Volcano--]


Creating a world, the generator might make the following areas:


Town 1
Forest 2
Forest 3
Mountain 2
Mountain 5
Volcano 4


Then .. when it comes to connecting them together and laying them out on a map, it will know that Moonman shouldn't start in the Volcano level, and would also cluster the lower difficult areas together .. allowing the player a chance to level up with enough resources and items. It may generate the following map:


T1 - F2 - M2 - M5
     |    |
     F3 - V4


It would then pick the friendliest region and spawn Moonman there, in this case the Town or Forest 2. From the forest, you can search for and find the path to Mountain 2. You may then find a path to Mountain 5, but upon arriving there you'll realise that you don't have strong enough equipment to get through.

Areas of different levels would be distinguished by different names, creatures, and even the toughness of the blocks. E.g., "The Friendliest Forest" may be a Level 1 forest with no enemies and basic resources. "The Doomed Forest" may be a Level 3 forest, with lots of angry creatures on the surface, thick rock that requires a strong hammer to get through, and the occasional poisonous scary pit of lava.

This is just a concept at the moment, but it seems like it could work well, offering a strategy/planning element alongside an easily adjustable difficulty setting: more difficult games could just use more higher-level regions and less friendly regions. What do you think?
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gimymblert
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« Reply #3282 on: October 08, 2015, 11:57:14 PM »

sound good!
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« Reply #3283 on: October 09, 2015, 02:08:11 AM »

I agree, seems to be a simple and efficient solution!
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planckpixels
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« Reply #3284 on: October 09, 2015, 02:47:13 AM »

This game is a work of art! :D

Great stuff Ben - and good luck with that Film Vic grant! How could they say no?
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« Reply #3285 on: October 09, 2015, 03:37:03 AM »

Wow, this game animation is insane, can't believe I haven't seen it until now. I love how unsettling the main character can be, btw. Congrats!
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« Reply #3286 on: October 09, 2015, 07:57:02 AM »

I take it the mountain levels are more icy (in opposition to the fiery volcanoes?)

Will you have an underwater or coastal area for the water element?
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eigenbom
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« Reply #3287 on: October 09, 2015, 11:28:41 AM »

Ok, great, thanks guys Smiley

I take it the mountain levels are more icy (in opposition to the fiery volcanoes?)

Will you have an underwater or coastal area for the water element?

I'm trying not to split the game up into such distinct elements, but yeh, the Mountain has ice, snow, and minerals to make cold-based magic items. There are 7 areas planned: pale, seed, mesa, pyre, void, veil, and faer, each with their own set of materials and enemies.

I will probably do a small sub-area that is coastal. After all, I spent all that time getting large bodies of water to be effecient, and also sand->glass is a transition.

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Shackhal
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« Reply #3288 on: October 11, 2015, 01:33:25 AM »

I like the difficulty level's area idea. It gives some control on the world map, I think. But don't underestimate the forest, unless there's no danger in Moonman's universe.
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eigenbom
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« Reply #3289 on: October 11, 2015, 03:39:00 PM »

Thanks Shackhal. There is definitely danger, but the forest is more of a starting resource zone, with the elements for basic gear, so I've kept it naturally free of nasties.

Update:

Following up on the difficulty concept above .. How would difficulty affect an area? e.g., what is the difference between Forest 2 and Forest 3?

Types of blocks.

- Tougher: Forest 3 could have more clusters of Stone that requires a Smash Level 1 tool to mine.
- Hard constraints: Forest 2 could replace the hard clay seam with a soft clay seam. Therefore Forest 3 would have a hard constraint (must have a Dig 2 tool to be able to pass through the level).
- Minerals / Ores: Higher level levels could have "higher level ores". So a Forest 3 might contain Jade, which typically would be in a Mountain 3.

Obstacles and Dangers

- Forest 3 could contain more pits with spikes
- Higher level could add hard constraints to access things. E.g., more locked chests.
- More dangerous world objects (poisonous eggs, lava pits, etc)

Type of Aspects
If a Mountain is typically level 3, and we generate a level 2, we might expect some positive aspect to it. Likewise if it has a higher-level, there might be some negative aspect to it.

So, for each area we might classify the aspects as positive or negative. E.g., snowing is a positive aspect for the pyre world, because snow would neutralise the lava somewhat. Flooded might be a positive aspect for Void, because water prevents you from falling to your death, and so on.

NPCs and Enemies
- Higher level areas have higher level NPCs. A higher-level NPC can make higher-level stuff. (At a higher-level cost)
- Higher level areas have more enemies and tougher enemies.
- There may be cut-offs, where e.g., a Level 1 forest contains no enemies whatsoever, or maybe a Level 5 volcano contains no NPCs.

Positions of doors, objects, spawn position, etc

Within an area we have a natural direction/path of danger, e.g., forest floor is friendly, forest cave is not so friendly. Therefore, we can make an area tougher or easier by varying the placement of objects, spawn points, etc. Forest 3 may have the entrance start in a cave, and therefore to get the precious lumber moonman would have to dig upwards. Another example, in an easier level the beneficial NPCs may appear closer to the spawn point, whereas in a harder level they might be hanging around the boss area.

This is just an idea brainstorm atm, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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eigenbom
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« Reply #3290 on: October 12, 2015, 11:34:41 PM »

I've been setting aside an hour a day to do something fun and random. Today it was to hack a quick character select..

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« Reply #3291 on: October 14, 2015, 03:50:11 AM »

Yeah I'd say that's a pretty good use of an hour!

What else has been born in these little bursts of creativity?
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eigenbom
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« Reply #3292 on: October 15, 2015, 01:47:48 AM »

Yeah I'd say that's a pretty good use of an hour!

What else has been born in these little bursts of creativity?

Heaps. Like fishes!


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« Reply #3293 on: October 15, 2015, 06:22:26 AM »

Whens this game coming out?! RRRRRGGGRRRBRBRBmmmmm.


I like the fish who swims with like one fin in an inch of water.
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« Reply #3294 on: October 15, 2015, 03:10:46 PM »

I think the 'taking out time to do something fun' is really worthwhile, and stops you going completely mad. Mind you, looking at your game, it may be too late already.  Smiley
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eigenbom
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« Reply #3295 on: October 15, 2015, 04:13:59 PM »

Whens this game coming out?! RRRRRGGGRRRBRBRBmmmmm.
I like the fish who swims with like one fin in an inch of water.

Early 2016 on early access I hope! And yeah he's a superfish.

I think the 'taking out time to do something fun' is really worthwhile, and stops you going completely mad. Mind you, looking at your game, it may be too late already.  Smiley

Yeah .. I'm long past sanity. Is this the longest active devlog on tigs now? It feels like it's been a while since that first post ..


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oldblood
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« Reply #3296 on: October 15, 2015, 04:38:25 PM »

Yeah .. I'm long past sanity. Is this the longest active devlog on tigs now? It feels like it's been a while since that first post ..

This is one of those very rare cases where a developer spending a half-decade on a game is a good thing... The evolution over this devlog is insane.
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eigenbom
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« Reply #3297 on: October 15, 2015, 05:01:02 PM »

Yeah .. I'm long past sanity. Is this the longest active devlog on tigs now? It feels like it's been a while since that first post ..

This is one of those very rare cases where a developer spending a half-decade on a game is a good thing... The evolution over this devlog is insane.

Haha, half a decade, when you say it like that .. Evil

If I started over I would definitely resist the urge to iterate so much, and just release Moonman in that earlier, simpler style. I'd probably be on my 3rd game by now. But that's something you have to learn I guess.

One thing that keeps me sane is to think of MM as a series of prototypes, each getting better, until one day I'll release one of these prototypes into the wild. I'm actually really looking forward to making more games with the engine, exploring different aspects of the procedural world-explorer concept.

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Conker
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« Reply #3298 on: October 15, 2015, 05:28:23 PM »

why haven't i resubbed to this thread yet?
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Shackhal
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« Reply #3299 on: October 15, 2015, 07:00:16 PM »

I don't know. I'm sure that following this devlog for 4 years was a blast, but hard. I also lost 3 years of following this devlog. Well, at least this devlog will continue for 1 more year until release (not early access, that's not considered finished).
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