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[SirNiko]

Shadow of the Colossus boasted a huge, seamless world and boss fights with gigantic monsters that you literally had to climb to defeat. The lack of random battles helped create an atmosphere of loneliness as you journeyed to each destination. Once you got past the opening cinema, the game kept the story in the background, so the ratio of play time to movie time was very high. It was minimalistic but still beautiful.

The biggest points where it wins are the seamless world, emphasis on leaving the player in control, the detail put into the environments and the really exciting boss battles. Despite its simple design and empty world, it showed a tremendous amount of care in its design and was genuinely fun to explore.

[phubans]

@Eres: Actually, I started with GM version 4 back in 2003, but I didn't release any games. The first game I attempted to make was a game I called Star Destiny, a top-down vertical space shooter with RPG elements. The sprites were these really ugly pre-rendered 3D models of spaceships and asteroids, with "anime style" vector-drawn characters for the cutscenes, etc. I had some cool ideas for the game, but I couldn't finish it because I was using GM's Drag & Drop functionality at the time and I needed to implement a shop system that was way too complex for my understanding of GM at the time.

On the topic of Ico & SotC, I've never played more than a rented demo of Ico, and SotC was okay, but by no means the cult hit it was hyped up to be (Sorry Gabriel!) I wasn't bothered as much by the games sparseness and minimalism, though the Zelda-bred gamer in me desired SO much more in between the boss battles. I mean, the game was basically just running from boss battle to boss battle, and I kind of got tired of this rinse & repeat formula after the 4th or 5th boss (I can't remember). In fact, I played the game stoned and I still found myself bored (this is never a good sign)... But I might have just been expecting too much, or just not into its whole approach.

Either way, I can see why people like it, but it's nowhere near as good as it could have been.

[Gabriel Verdon]

On the topic of Ico & SotC, I've never played more than a rented demo of Ico, and SotC was okay, but by no means the cult hit it was hyped up to be (Sorry Gabriel!)

Actually, it is the cult hit it was hyped it up to be - you're just not part of the cult. Understand?

[---]

On the topic of Ico & SotC, I've never played more than a rented demo of Ico, and SotC was okay, but by no means the cult hit it was hyped up to be (Sorry Gabriel!)

Actually, it is the cult hit it was hyped it up to be - you're just not part of the cult. Understand?

this makes sense

[Blademasterbobo]

my god, phubans doesn't like things that other people like

[Manuel Magalhães]

Oh no! D:
----

Deshori looks nice though. I don't like the style of these, it looks like ms paint doodles i made when i was 6 years old

I dismissed this comment on the back, but I don't get it. If you think that the genre is akin to "picking up litter" why would you like one of these games for their graphics? Graphics do help but it still sounds like an ad hominem.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

@Eres: Actually, I started with GM version 4 back in 2003, but I didn't release any games. The first game I attempted to make was a game I called Star Destiny, a top-down vertical space shooter with RPG elements. The sprites were these really ugly pre-rendered 3D models of spaceships and asteroids, with "anime style" vector-drawn characters for the cutscenes, etc. I had some cool ideas for the game, but I couldn't finish it because I was using GM's Drag & Drop functionality at the time and I needed to implement a shop system that was way too complex for my understanding of GM at the time.

that doesn't really contradict what i said -- that there weren't very many good gm games in 2003. if you started a game in 2003 and didn't finish it because you couldn't script a shop system, that doesn't mean it was a good game, that means it was a game that never was even finished. if, even in its incomplete state, it was better than seiklus, you should have released what you had and revolutionized the gm community

[---]

I dismissed this comment on the back, but I don't get it. If you think that the genre is akin to "picking up litter" why would you like one of these games for their graphics? Graphics do help but it still sounds like an ad hominem.

i dunno. i haven't played it, and we really don't know anything about it yet. I've been talking to pbs about it and it sounds like there's a lot more than picking up litter. The graphics help add to the experience (i think, and hope), while the graphics in Seiklus, are nothing special in my opinion.

[phubans]

^^^YES^^^

If you're going to have minimalist/non-existent gameplay, at least make it look interesting.

[Manuel Magalhães]

@shelby Ah, ok. If there a lot more than that then I understand your preference (and Deshori does looks good.). Either way I'm happy for PBS for working on Deshori again, I've been following his devlog since the Kickstarter days, and I wish the best of luck to him for being a cool dude and being so passionate to his game. 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

I dismissed this comment on the back, but I don't get it. If you think that the genre is akin to "picking up litter" why would you like one of these games for their graphics? Graphics do help but it still sounds like an ad hominem.

i dunno. i haven't played it, and we really don't know anything about it yet. I've been talking to pbs about it and it sounds like there's a lot more than picking up litter. The graphics help add to the experience (i think, and hope), while the graphics in Seiklus, are nothing special in my opinion.

seiklus is a lot more than picking up litter too -- you're just judging it without playing it, which is kind of disrespectful to the most important game maker game ever made

[---]

disrespecting a game doesn't matter though. it's still a game, no matter how lauded it is.

EDIT: Downloaded it, played for about 5 minutes. I still don't see anything beyond picking up litter and walking around. How is this important?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

already described why it was important earlier: it was one of the first games in gm with actual content, which led to a huge number of people learning about gm and trying gm out. if seiklus didn't exist gm probably would not be anywhere near as popular as it is now, and many of us wouldn't be using gm or making games at all

also there's a bit of irony in "playing a game for 5 minutes" and judging it harshly in the igf thread

[AndySchatz]

also there's a bit of irony in "playing a game for 5 minutes" and judging it harshly in the igf thread

Kinda like saying the visual arts nominees don't deserve to be there based on screenshots and short videos?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

also there's a bit of irony in "playing a game for 5 minutes" and judging it harshly in the igf thread

Kinda like saying the visual arts nominees don't deserve to be there based on screenshots and short videos?

i never said it didn't deserve to be there at all, i'd never say something like that. what i did say was that i didn't understand why games like dust and the iconoclasts were not also given an honorable mention for visuals, since their visuals look really great to me

also, as mentioned when you brought this up before, i've *played* most of the games i'm commenting on the visuals of (i haven't yet played dust, but i've played the others). just because i link to screenshots and short videos doesn't mean that i'm judging them only by that; i've also played the games

[:)]

oh snap.



EDIT dangit i was ninja'd by eres.

[---]

EDIT dangit i was ninja'd by eres.

like 1 and a half hours ago

[SirNiko]

If only he'd posted it 35 minutes after Paul Eres, it would have been funnier.

Seiklus is a simple collect-a-thon. There are a few puzzles and a minor exploration element, but for the most part it is in the same category as the original Knytt. If you don't enjoy exploration (and don't find the graphics charming) it's understandable you'd be turned off right away.

Honestly, though, I think you can get the gist of Seiklus in only five minutes of play. Aside from a couple of unique challenges, the rest of the game is just combing each area and trying to find all the pips.

This gets back to an earlier point in the thread - if you start off a game with a very slow intro that is not representative of the rest of the game, you only have yourself to fault if the player quits early expecting the game to be boring. Seiklus does it RIGHT, and gets the player straight to the core of the game right off the bat, as opposed to, say, making you wander around a tutorial area learning moves before you fall down to the world below and start collecting pips.

Unfortunately it also means the player can pretty quickly identify that collecting pips is not enjoyable to them for whatever reason.

But I liked Seiklus. I thought it was worth at least playing far enough to see each of the different areas and I mostly pursued unlocking the door because I absolutely love unlocking new areas as a reward for a quest.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

it's possible though that in the first 5 min of seiklus you don't find any hidden areas, and so you miss the idea that it's also about finding hidden stuff and not just about finding stuff that's out in the open

[AndySchatz]

it's possible though that in the first 5 min of seiklus you don't find any hidden areas, and so you miss the idea that it's also about finding hidden stuff and not just about finding stuff that's out in the open

but then another judge tells you that its really worth it to play a little more to find the hidden areas. You end up going back and trying it for a little while longer and finding that you still dont really connect with the game.