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[deathtotheweird]

yeah it should be easy to find their emails even if he doesn't have em. but he should probably also ask the chairman if that's okay as well.

[larsiusprime]

Cool! Great reply, Paul. I think I agree with pretty much all of that. Hope it does well and doesn't get disqualified on some technicality!

[ANtY]

but the reason i disagree with allen is because i don't think fez is all that famous as people assume here. it's famous among indie devs, not among the general populace. it's not like minecraft or even frozen synapse, it can still benefit from the fame and recognition of winning, and i'd rather have it win than frozen synapse because it needs the recognition more than frozen synapse does, and if people are going to complain about games entering they should complain about games like frozen synapse, which are far more popular than fez is

But Frozen Synapse didn't win any IGF before
Also I'd like them to win more than Fez because I like them more. Fish is annoying and has ultra-big ego.

[unsilentwill]

If only you people know about the attitudes and egos about your favorite artists, musicians, directors, authors... competitions should judge on quality of work and not the character and social niceties of the creator. Whether you buy the game I guess is up to you.

It is weird how much junk is shoveled in, probably just for publicity. Indies who put triple the effort they probably do into a AAA game making a small percentage of the money they would at the job. Having a good idea is hard to come by I guess.

[deathtotheweird]

but the reason i disagree with allen is because i don't think fez is all that famous as people assume here.

The reason I was adverse to Fez entering was because it had won an award before, not because it was popular. The truth is that Fez, as we know it today, wouldn't have existed had it not won an IGF award. This is an undeniable fact, and nothing short of going back in time and changing history could disprove it. Don't you think that is one hell of an advantage to have on other developers?

I don't mind anyone entering and having an advantage (like say, Frozen Synapse over some new indie just entering the ring) but the fact they achieved that advantage through the IGF and are entering again doesn't sit well with me.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

FRACT won the student igf last year and is re-entered this year


just fyi

[Glaiel-Gamer]

The truth is that Fez, as we know it today, wouldn't have existed had it not won an IGF award. This is an undeniable fact, and nothing short of going back in time and changing history could disprove it.

it's an unfalsifiable fact not an undeniable fact, I don't think the igf is the sole reason FEZ is where its at today, hell I think the game wouldn't be that different if it didn't. It got a lot of hype, more than other IGF games usually do even, and I blame that on the merits of the game, the screenshots, and the novelty of the concept moreso than the fact that it won an award 5 years ago.

I don't think it should have be re-entered though

[Zaphos]

FRACT won the student igf last year and is re-entered this year


just fyi

So is Boryokudan Rue (now Gemini Rue) I think.

student igf -> main igf is a bit different than main->main though, to me.  I wonder if that kind of re-entry will also be discouraged in the future?

[deathtotheweird]

FRACT won the student igf last year and is re-entered this year


just fyi

I wasn't aware of that. I won't go so far as to say I have a problem with them entering, but I definitely feel they probably shouldn't have entered. Although as Jimmy says, it was in the student IGF so I have less issue with that than I do with Fez.

I don't think the igf is the sole reason FEZ is where its at today

The main difference here is you don't "think", yet I "know" that Fez wouldn't be the game it is today (I didn't say it's the sole reason where it's at, that's a different statement with a different meaning) without the IGF. Because it did win an IGF award. Like I said, that cannot be dis-proven. Unless you have a time machine handy.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

The reason I was adverse to Fez entering was because it had won an award before, not because it was popular.

hmm -- if you don't mind anyone entering regardless of popularity, why were you against minecraft entering last year? it hadn't won the igf before either

i also agree with glaiel: if a claim is unfalsifiable, that does not make it undeniable; the opposite is true: if you can't disprove a fact (without supernatural powers like time travel), then it is not a fact at all. i don't think it's wrong to say that fez would not be where it is without the igf, it's a believable opinion, but i don't think it's a fact at all, that isn't how facts work. it should be familiar to anyone from the atheism/religion debates that claims which are not falsifiable are not necessarily true (and usually are false)

in any case for clarity reasons here's a list of reasons that i believe a game morally should not enter the igf:

- if a game has more than about one million dollars in funding, from any source (even self-funded by an individual)
- if a game is extremely popular and will not benefit much from the recognition

as far as i know, neither of those applies to fez. it got some funding from the government of canada i believe, but it's in the form of a loan and wasn't a million dollars or more. and it's not yet as popular as the top-tier of indie games in terms of popularity (minecraft, braid, frozen synapse, terraria, and so on).

[DavidCaruso]

Pushin' that medium forward!

Anyway, from just looking at pictures and reading descriptions, there are quite a few games that look interesting to me and could turn out/is great (a lot of it being new stuff that I hadn't heard about before:)

• Battlemass
• Capsized
• Children of Liberty
• Defender's Quest: Valley of the Forgotten
• Demolition Inc.
• Fez
• Gemini Rue
• Gunpoint
• Jamestown
• Navigator
• Oniken
• Prison Architect
• Saturated Dreamers
• Snapshot
• The Iconoclasts
• Ultimate Newcomer

So yeah, the selection this year isn't too bad at all.

[C.A. Silbereisen]

Bang! is also a Western-themed card game that plays a bit like a souped up Werewolf. It's pretty fun.

[deathtotheweird]

hmm -- if you don't mind anyone entering regardless of popularity, why were you against minecraft entering last year? it hadn't won the igf before either

Because it was highly successful, not because it was popular. It was successful because it was popular but that's not why I was against it being entered.

and fuck off with that unfalsifiable/undeniable bullshit. it was poor wording on my part, needs no further elaboration other than what tyler provided.

[C.A. Silbereisen]

not taking sides here but, re: "fez isn't as popular as you think:" i'm pretty sure a game is at least decently popular when its creator more or less stars in a documentary about game development. i don't know how "famous" other high-profile xbla games like braid and super meat boy are but they both seemed to get quite a bit of mainstream coverage when they came out and i think fez is a little "higher profile" than them.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

but the documentary was made by the indie in-group, so i'm not sure it counts as popularity. it's not like time magazine or adam curtis is doing a documentary on him

but i'd agree that fez's popularity is about where super meat boy's and braid's were, before they were released. and that is: something popular among indies, but unknown among everyone else

[deathtotheweird]

but... http://www.indiegamethemovie.com/press/

 

[phubans]

Can entrants also judge? How does that work?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

Can entrants also judge? How does that work?

last year adam atomic was a judge and did the art for cave story wii version (which won for visuals)

coincidence??? *conspiracy theory hat*

[Derek]

BIT.TRIP RUNNER won for visuals:

http://www.igf.com/02finalists.html

I'm happy about that.

[Belimoth]

Can entrants also judge? How does that work?

last year adam atomic was a judge and did the art for cave story wii version (which won for visuals)

coincidence??? *conspiracy theory hat*

Wishful thinking.