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May 19, 2013, 01:10:01 AM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralIGF Thread 2012
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Author Topic: IGF Thread 2012  (Read 68096 times)
Paul Eres
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« Reply #555 on: January 11, 2012, 06:58:43 PM »

regarding the opportunity cost of posting on tigsource, i didn't reply to that, but that's kind of obvious -- not everything is done for one's work. posting on tigsource is done for leisure, as a break from other things, similar to playing games, or going for a walk, or watching youtube. i don't think anyone sees posting on tigsource as part of their marketing plan (not even mattg). so there would be no opportunity cost since most people require a certain amount of leisure / rest time each day (some more than others, but most people require at least some leisure), how they spend it varies. for instance, from your own company:

Quote
Mr. Swink quit his job, moved to Tempe, Ariz., and joined Flashbang Studios to work on his own creations. But far from being a starving artist, Mr. Swink has managed to buy himself a house and he has more time to himself. The office has a mountain unicycling club and most days they only work six hours a day, four days a week.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124094416078864595.html
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Alexander Bruce
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« Reply #556 on: January 11, 2012, 07:00:32 PM »

Look, you guys are totally right. I'll admit that. Much like how Michael Phelps won all of his medals at the Olympics because his friends told everyone to slow down and let him win.
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« Reply #557 on: January 11, 2012, 07:02:14 PM »

Look, you guys are totally right. I'll admit that. Much like how Michael Phelps won all of his medals at the Olympics because his friends told everyone to slow down and let him win.

michael phelps smoked a bong once thats why hes successful
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« Reply #558 on: January 11, 2012, 07:04:07 PM »

Look, you guys are totally right. I'll admit that. Much like how Michael Phelps won all of his medals at the Olympics because his friends told everyone to slow down and let him win.

What are you fucking stupid? Comparing a game developer to an Olympic swimmer has got to be the dumbest fucking comparison I have ever heard of.
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MMVFM
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« Reply #559 on: January 11, 2012, 07:06:24 PM »

Look, you guys are totally right. I'll admit that. Much like how Michael Phelps won all of his medals at the Olympics because his friends told everyone to slow down and let him win.

did you read what I said? many of the most talented/driven people will become successful no matter what, but that doesn't mean there couldn't possibly be any problem whatsoever with cronyism.
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Murudai
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« Reply #560 on: January 11, 2012, 07:09:17 PM »

Herp de derp derp durr. Derpy derp hurr durr durr herp derp. Derp derp derp herpy durr. Herp de derp de derp de hurr durr herp derp. Durr durr derp derp. Herpy derpy derpy herp. Derp. Hurrrrrrrrr derp. Derp derp herp herp. Durrrrrrr.



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Matthew
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« Reply #561 on: January 11, 2012, 07:16:01 PM »

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Mr. Swink quit his job, moved to Tempe, Ariz., and joined Flashbang Studios to work on his own creations. But far from being a starving artist, Mr. Swink has managed to buy himself a house and he has more time to himself. The office has a mountain unicycling club and most days they only work six hours a day, four days a week.

Yup!  These things make for a good story.

The article doesn't mention that Steve worked as an instructor at The Art Institute of Phoenix (and still does to this very day).  We also didn't bring up the 10 training games we made for Cisco, because nobody really wants to hear about boring corporate contract work.  The illusion of the company is a lot more compelling than the real thing.

If you do want to hear about our tremendous successes, look up my Raptor Safari talk from last year's Failure Workshop.  Or come to the IGS this year for Steve's talk about Shadow Physics.  If secret handshakes and connections are all it takes to succeed, why did we both fail?  I thought we were pretty well connected.
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Matthew Wegner
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« Reply #562 on: January 11, 2012, 07:17:22 PM »

you failed because your games suck. you need to be well connected + have good games. you only had one part of the equation.
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« Reply #563 on: January 11, 2012, 07:19:51 PM »

Matthew, don't you think the judging system is a problem? Do you think it's perfectly fine that people will alternate between being judges and nominees, sometimes the very same year even?
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Evan Balster
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« Reply #564 on: January 11, 2012, 07:20:10 PM »

You don't have to be nominated to get a lot out of GDC.

I'm going to tell my story, here.


I've been making games as a hobby since I was 12 or so, in Game Maker and C++ starting around 18.  I'm 21, now.  Used to be most of my contact with other game developers was through forums.

My family is not rich.  My mother lost most of what she owned to a flood in 2008, leaved her mired in debt, and my father died of brain cancer the next year.  At the time of my first GDC I was doing a $10 per hour research job, though I had the blessing of meal center food so I was able to save up.  As of today I don't know how I'll be paying the rent at the end of this month, and I'm STILL going to GDC.

What convinced me to go to my first one was a friend, Ted Martens, who I met through a fellow researcher at the university.  He and a few friends (I later befriended the two others who remained in Ames) were IGF student winners waaaay back in the day.

I saved up my pennies and tried (and failed to get some financial aid from my university.  I ended up managing to afford the $1100-or-so for airfare, lodging and a ticket.

I went to GDC, and immediately started meeting people.  At the time my favorite game was Aquaria; when I made my way to Moscone on the first day of the conference, I saw Alec Holowka standing among a small circle of people, walked up to him, and said hello!  (This blew my mind)  As the week progressed I met tons and tons of people simply by being social.


A little over a year later I made a game called Infinite Blank -- inspired in part by a game by Farbs, who I'd met at that first GDC and who encouraged me to pursue the idea -- and Ted recommended I enter it into an event called 'sense of wonder night'.  I did so and ended up being invited to the event.

At the Tokyo game show I ended up meeting and catching dinner with some of the other SOWN people, and additionally one Tyrone Rodriguez, who would later offer me the work of porting Cave Story, which I accepted.


Please tell me if I've done anything wrong or meriting disapproval here, short of leaving a few Cave Story bugs unaddressed longer than I should have.  :\



A general strategy:

1. Mak gam.  Pursue interesting ideas, and show your work to lots of people.  Work hard, if possible on small and polished things.  Be humble, but don't deprecate yourself either.  This is supposed to be a meritocracy, to try to prove yourself.

2. Try very hard to go to GDC, ticket or no.  Take a job if you have to.  Failing that, look for more local events.  Get help from family.  This should be manageable for the vast, vast majority of people over 18 years of age.  Compromise with school or work may be necessary.  (You can hotel in San Francisco as cheap as $30 per night.)

3. When you DO get to GDC (or some other gathering) overcome any shyness issues you have.  These people think like you!  You will be amazed how much you can mind-meld with the people around you.  If you have a hard time, try to make one solid acquaintance; you'll meet many more people through them.

4. Don't burn bridges or choose enemies.  Anger and bile achieve nothing.  Conversely don't feel obligated to make friends with anyone you don't like.  It DOES help you but it is NOT necessary and signifies a lack of self-respect.


Worked well enough for me.




...and a final concession:  The IGF judging process isn't great.  It's not unheard of for some games to never actually get played by judges; this happened to someone I know, though he's very much "1%" or whatever you care to call it.
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Paul Eres
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« Reply #565 on: January 11, 2012, 07:23:54 PM »

@mattheww - i don't think i ever said that connections were all you need to be successful -- i seem to recall saying something else:

@mattheww - yeah i don't think it's all *that* important; as phubans implied, it's possible to succeed without being an insider; look at notch for instance; he succeeded largely without external help. it varies from case to case

there are people who would not have succeeded without connections, and people who succeed without them, and people whose games can't succeed even with all the best connections because they aren't very good at making games, etc. etc.

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Matthew, don't you think the judging system is a problem? Do you think it's perfectly fine that people will alternate between being judges and nominees, sometimes the very same year even?

i'm not sure this happened; the closest i can think of was adam atomic being a judge and also an entrant with cave story wii/+ (he did some of the art for it), but i doubt he was allowed to vote for his own game
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phubans
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« Reply #566 on: January 11, 2012, 07:24:17 PM »

A general strategy:

1. Mak gam.  Pursue interesting ideas, and show your work to lots of people.  Work hard, if possible on small and polished things.  Be humble, but don't deprecate yourself either.  This is supposed to be a meritocracy, to try to prove yourself.

Check.

Quote
2. Try very hard to go to GDC, ticket or no.  Take a job if you have to.  Failing that, look for more local events.  Get help from family.  This should be manageable for the vast, vast majority of people over 18 years of age.  Compromise with school or work may be necessary.  (You can hotel in San Francisco as cheap as $30 per night.)

Check.

Quote
3. When you DO get to GDC (or some other gathering) overcome any shyness issues you have.  These people think like you!  You will be amazed how much you can mind-meld with the people around you.  If you have a hard time, try to make one solid acquaintance; you'll meet many more people through them.

Check.

Quote
4. Don't burn bridges or choose enemies.  Anger and bile achieve nothing.  Conversely don't feel obligated to make friends with anyone you don't like.  It DOES help you but it is NOT necessary and signifies a lack of self-respect.

Oops...
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Matthew
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« Reply #567 on: January 11, 2012, 07:26:08 PM »

you failed because your games suck. you need to be well connected + have good games. you only had one part of the equation.

Exactly!

And the best way to make connections is by having a good game (and then excitedly talking about it and showing it wherever you can).  It's almost like the path to success is simply to try as hard as you can, as long as you can, to make the best you can...

Gentleman
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Matthew Wegner
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Paul Eres
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« Reply #568 on: January 11, 2012, 07:27:21 PM »

and live in california
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Glaiel-Gamer
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« Reply #569 on: January 11, 2012, 07:27:42 PM »

It's almost like the path to success is simply to try as hard as you can, as long as you can, to make the best you can...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKofewfeSoY

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