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1065197 Posts in 43448 Topics- by 35476 Members - Latest Member: johanbrodd

November 21, 2014, 02:28:09 AM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralIGF Thread 2012
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Evan Balster
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« Reply #600 on: January 11, 2012, 08:20:49 PM »

FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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« Reply #601 on: January 11, 2012, 08:21:14 PM »

I know some people hate the drama or whatever, but I think we'd be worse off if it didn't happen. Maybe it is just me, but I learn a lot from all the arguments that occur. I'm an indie game noob, so a lot of the controversy helps me think about things I don't or in ways that I wouldn't have.
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« Reply #602 on: January 11, 2012, 08:21:39 PM »

you mean.. how can a canadian be better than anyone
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« Reply #603 on: January 11, 2012, 08:23:46 PM »

hi i ride a unicycle in foreign lands i am mister worldly white man
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ink.inc
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« Reply #604 on: January 11, 2012, 08:24:12 PM »

its funny cos thats all alec trollowka and phil fish does

also if youre living in california stop living in san fran or whatever the whiteys told you to live in its for faggots


Aww, come on, SF is like my favorite city! All sorts of cool people to watch and places to visit; it's all kinds of interesting, (and great food too).

But yeah, California's only prohibitively expensive if you live in either SF or certain parts of LA; aside from that, it's about 99 percent farmland.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 08:29:39 PM by John Sandoval » Logged
Chris Pavia
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« Reply #605 on: January 11, 2012, 08:26:15 PM »

is it possible to have gifs in responses disabled?

notsureifserious.jpg
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« Reply #606 on: January 11, 2012, 08:27:12 PM »

gif... anagram for igf... disable igf now
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alastair
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« Reply #607 on: January 11, 2012, 08:38:39 PM »

Adblock 4 l1f3
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Impossible
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« Reply #608 on: January 11, 2012, 08:42:07 PM »

Someone should seriously make a strategy game where you play as all these different factions and the goal is to stop everyone else from getting popular and winning at GDC. Weapons could be replaced by marketing tools like tech buzzwords ("procedural generation") or 8-bit nostalgic 30-year-old appeal, and when you get enough money you could step it up a Notch by hiring hitmen or bribing TIGSource moderators to edit out negative criticism of your game and give you frontpage publicity instead of your other indiependent opponents. Trade and diplomacy could also be changed thematically to forming social connections at conventions with big-name developers so you can gain perks in art, programming, etc. which help you meet deadlines and raise your popularity meter. The game ends when you win at IGF, get picked up by Steam, and recieve your first 10/10 IGN review.

Hah, this is awesome.  Indie Game Dev Story. This should be the next TIGSource compo, make a game about making indie games.
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« Reply #609 on: January 11, 2012, 08:44:47 PM »

this isnt videogames this is REAL LIFE
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peanutbuttershoes
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wat a hell


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« Reply #610 on: January 11, 2012, 09:00:22 PM »

I AM SO GLAD WHEN A THREAD REACHES THIS POINT
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wat a hell

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« Reply #611 on: January 11, 2012, 09:01:44 PM »

I AM SO GLAD WHEN A THREAD REACHES THIS POINT

now is when the party begins! when is it over? NEVER
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MMVFM
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« Reply #612 on: January 11, 2012, 09:06:19 PM »

Can't a mod delete all the off-topic posts?
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Ashkin
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« Reply #613 on: January 11, 2012, 09:07:12 PM »

No. This is the only rational way to end the argument. Drown it out with idiocy. Then maybe you'll all shut up and mak gam.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #614 on: January 11, 2012, 09:13:45 PM »

So apparently MattG is impersonating me on the frontpage in his vendetta against all things IGF.

This is crossing into the absurd.
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peanutbuttershoes
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« Reply #615 on: January 11, 2012, 09:18:29 PM »

That's not cool. That's crossing a line. All's fun and games until someone impersonates someone else and slanders them.

<just opened himself up to slander>
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« Reply #616 on: January 11, 2012, 09:26:05 PM »

Today we added fans to Octodad. Now he flys around like a weird hot air balloon.  Oh also, I am the secret Phil Fish and the only reason Octodad is known by anyone is because... Oh wait no one knew us before GDC/IGF and we still got nominated... CONSPIRACY Shrug
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« Reply #617 on: January 11, 2012, 09:50:32 PM »

they obviously have to cover their asses by handing a few nominations and wins out to unknowns so no one would call them on their bullshit.
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Matthew
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« Reply #618 on: January 11, 2012, 09:50:40 PM »

For what it's worth, I don't think there's cronyism in the juries.  Just to be clear--the IGF process this year (and last) is that:

- Main judge pool are assigned a dozen games, and can nominate a game in any/all categories

- Each award has a small jury, who can see a list of what the larger judge pool is focusing on

- The juries individually discuss games on a mailing list (any games; the nominations are simply starting points)

- The jury members cast approval voting (they vote for any number of games)

- The games with the most votes are finalists

True cronyism--"I'm going to try to make my friend a finalist"--is only possible if you're on the jury.  Here are the juries this year:

http://igf.com/2011/12/igf_2012_reveals_visual_art_au.html#more
http://igf.com/2011/12/igf_2012_reveals_design_techni.html#more

I think the average passionate indie developer cares more about the medium, the craft, and therefore what the IGF stands for, than they would care about falsely boosting their friend's career.  Most indies I get feedback from, especially friends, are always blunt with me.  But maybe that's just my own interpersonal dynamic, I don't know.

However, here's the rub:  A jurist will select a game based on their opinion.  There aren't any hard metrics to go by.  There no way to "go to the tape", to get an instant reply, do a measurement, or test anyone's bloodstream.  Tastes matter:  Tastes about what makes a game good, what makes a game innovative, what makes a production or piece of polish excellent instead of obvious (and even what sorts of "obvious" are only obvious because of their brilliant-but-simplistic-seeming veneer).

And in that sense, yes, moving between entrant and jurist from year to year is certainly going to have an effect.  I can't say what, or even how to notice what and where.  But it's there.  If you work on an notoriously player-difficult game for a year, you're going to respect difficulty curves and be much more perceptive of the craft that goes into them than other judges.  If you work on procedural generation design problems, you'll probably have more respect for successful implementations than other designers.

You can see this in the judge discussion in the IGF backend.  Some games have dozens of comments! I bet if I anonymized the comments you could pick out who was who, still.  That's the way it's meant to be.

I don't think you can exploit this facet of the judging process.  And I certainly don't think it automatically makes your chances higher if you have friends on the jury.  In fact, many of my own friends strongly value originality to the point where "outsider design" is probably more valuable.  My feeling is that it all balances out.

TL;DR Yes, the IGF judging process has chaos.  Judges pick games based on opinions.  Good luck exploiting this.
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Matthew Wegner
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« Reply #619 on: January 11, 2012, 09:57:03 PM »

When do the developers get the feedback for their games?

Sometime after GDC.

Source: Link


Is there some reason that the feedback can't be given when the nominees are announced? The IGF has posted some feedback for the finalists here: http://igf.com/2012/01/2012_independent_games_festiva_4.html

Surely the feedback for the games that didn't make it is also already available, right? That would help the people who believe that their games are good enough for nominations but they are held down by the "indie elite." They could see exactly what the judges thought about their games right now and compare that to the feedback for the nominees.
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