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[Paul Eres]

i guess i just don't personally have that "er no" reaction to any game, so i don't understand it. games that are bad are actually more interesting for me to play than games that are good; they often have much more of the author's personality in them than polished games

i've played about 1000 different ohrrpgce games for instance, and the majority of them are horrible, but i still enjoyed playing them, just seeing the creative process of kids at work. i think if you look at a bad game similar to how you look at a baby's drawing/scribbles, it becomes lot more interesting than if you look at it like you look at feces

[phubans]

This is what our failed IGF entry looks like:



- Obviously it is a real game and not a "troll." We actually put a lot of time and effort into making this game so far.

- It is possible to play 7 out of the 10 demo stages within 5 minutes, provided you know what you're doing.

- It is possible to get a total understanding of the game from 5 minutes of play, but I'd hope that people would be more engaged than to limit themselves to 5 minutes.

- I should also note that everyone who's played this game (mostly experienced industry professionals) have remarked that it's very well made and "will make us piles of money."

...So yeah, I don't really think there's anything wrong with our game. I'm not really even mad, just suspicious. Like I said before, I'm confident that this game will enjoy great success on the market, with or without the IGF.

[aeiowu]

On desertion and divisive issues at TIGForums

There is a group of caustic personalities that are die-hard here. The pedantic, abrasive, unconstructive attitudes from a minority of the users here destroys the morale of a great deal of passionate and well-meaning individuals. I know it destroys mine, at least temporarily. So I don't come around here much anymore. If I'm going to spend time on the internet not working, then I like to enjoy that time, whether it be through learning, laughing or making connections with other people. Healthy discourse is good, but this isn't really the case here. There is very little consideration and respect for others and when it's brought up that the IGF and etc. really do want to help and are listening, the resentment persists and the witch-hunts set sail.

When I first checked in to this thread I saw Phubans specifically tearing my game apart for getting an honorable mention over his in the mobile category. I can understand his point about our game (he said it looked like a weekend tech demo) and that he's upset. But it still hurt kind of a lot. I met Paul last GDC and I thought we became fast friends so it was hard to hear that the reason he was upset was because of my game, in some way or another. I think Spunk and Moxie looks pretty sweet, I haven't played it but I think it's going to do well just from the looks of it.

This whole thread unfolded into more unsavory feelings that were very un-TIGForums. I look back on the 1000+ posts I've made over the years here and I remember the community much more fondly than what it has become. There seemed to be a brightness inside of the gang here; a positivity that was talented, critical and very productive. I'm sure that exists in certain pockets of the forums here today, it has to, but a certain attitude has taken hold of the TIGForums, it's incessantly contrarian and a lot of people are disgusted by it. It has repelled me from continuing to visit this place and it seems to be bleeding into other people.

I think a big reason it seems like there is a divide between those that sympathize with the IGF and the people that run it is because we see them as people, not a conglomerate of rules to rally against. This isn't politics, there is no real system entrenched in centuries of tradition and habit. These are people running this thing and they have feelings, but more importantly, they have the purest of intentions for the future of the Indie Games and us. When you piss all over those people without more than a few minutes of thought about how they might feel about it, you're being a jerk. Criticism and changes are necessary, we should be continually be editing things, but the way people are acting about this is hurtful, destructive and immature. It's because Brandon and Simon care so much that they are vulnerable. You can't have one without the other. You'd do well as a human being to understand this at all times and treat others with an empathy that understands fortune is part of your own perception and that everyone, even the richest most successful and happiest looking people have deep pain and struggle to deal with.

Never would the human brain allow ourselves to be completely rid of struggle. I don't expect anything to change around here with the general tone of the community, it's been like this for quite awhile. But this is how I see it, so don't be surprised when a lot of people that used to post a lot or be more heavily involved with TIGForums to come out of the woodwork to say "calm down, let's work together and be civil" in hopes of being constructive and mitigating the damage that is being done to people whose sole intention, very truly, is to help as much as is humanly possible. The pointing and fighting is destructive not only to the IGF itself, but to the possible conversation that could be had if we all took the position that behaving like children was not tolerated or at the very least, ignored.

[Paul Eres]

@phubans - caveat: you don't know if your game was one of the games that judges only played for 5 minutes. you should put in some time-tracking software for next year

[phubans]

When I first checked in to this thread I saw Phubans specifically tearing my game apart for getting an honorable mention over his in the mobile category. I can understand his point about our game (he said it looked like a weekend tech demo) and that he's upset. But it still hurt kind of a lot. I met Paul last GDC and I thought we became fast friends so it was hard to hear that the reason he was upset was because of my game, in some way or another. I think Spunk and Moxie looks pretty sweet, I haven't played it but I think it's going to do well just from the looks of it.

Greg, I want to apologize for that. I said some very stupid things out of anger of losing, and I didn't mean for them to be personal attacks, especially not on you. It was only after I realized that I had already said those things that I realized the error of my ways. I'm sincerely sorry. I remember meeting you and Mike and thinking you were both really great dudes, and I didn't even realize that half of the games I was dissing were made by friends and people I knew. You could imagine my embarrassment and chagrin when I realized that Honorable Mention was yours. I've wanted to apologize for that ever since, and I've never really had the opportunity to do that until now. So again, I'm really sorry for the stupid things I said out of anger

[alastair]

I forgive you!

[Paul Eres]

well i don't

hang him by his ears

[Blademasterbobo]

it feels weird when paul posts something like that

[Paul Eres]

i think that feeling is just 'being bobo'

[Blademasterbobo]

 

[aeiowu]

When I first checked in to this thread I saw Phubans specifically tearing my game apart for getting an honorable mention over his in the mobile category. I can understand his point about our game (he said it looked like a weekend tech demo) and that he's upset. But it still hurt kind of a lot. I met Paul last GDC and I thought we became fast friends so it was hard to hear that the reason he was upset was because of my game, in some way or another. I think Spunk and Moxie looks pretty sweet, I haven't played it but I think it's going to do well just from the looks of it.

Greg, I want to apologize for that. I said some very stupid things out of anger of losing, and I didn't mean for them to be personal attacks, especially not on you. It was only after I realized that I had already said those things that I realized the error of my ways. I'm sincerely sorry. I remember meeting you and Mike and thinking you were both really great dudes, and I didn't even realize that half of the games I was dissing were made by friends and people I knew. You could imagine my embarrassment and chagrin when I realized that Honorable Mention was yours. I've wanted to apologize for that ever since, and I've never really had the opportunity to do that until now. So again, I'm really sorry for the stupid things I said out of anger

Hey dude no worries! I understand for sure and it's not a big deal now. Let's forget about it, see you in SF hopefully! I wanna check out Spunk & Moxie.

[Dragonmaw]

I think the real lesson we can take away from all this is:

Nobody is more fervent about the quality of a game than its developer

[Paul Eres]

i'm not sure about that. what about minecraft? some of his fans are way more fervant than notch is about it

speaking of minecraft, i just read this comment on that igf article:

I can look back and imagine me "reviewing" my first five minutes of Minecraft. I have to punch trees? You just punch trees? I'm all alone and there is nobody to talk to. What do I do? Oh I can punch the dirt too... woo. Now it is dark, I can't see anything, I just blew up, Where did all my wood go? Everything is trying to kill me and I just have to punch them with wood? I died again. This game is boring. -End- Five minute review of one of the best indie games. Notch really should have learned and started you with a full set of diamond tools fighting a dragon, you know... to hook me, let me know the game is worth playing.

[peanutbuttershoes]

Yeah... what I take out of this is thus, YOU'RE ALL _____

[Glaiel-Gamer]

nobody claims that minecraft's lack of an intro and reliance on an external wiki is a positive factor of that game