Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1076079 Posts in 44161 Topics- by 36127 Members - Latest Member: DSSiege11

December 30, 2014, 09:03:29 AM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralRe: Project Zomboid Fiasco
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
Print
Author Topic: Re: Project Zomboid Fiasco  (Read 4080 times)
JWK5
Guest
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2011, 12:10:09 PM »

I think that is about exactly what I too wrote.
I typed it with my toes for extra dramatic impact.
Logged
Superb Joe
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2011, 12:17:27 PM »

this guy seems like a big pussy, i bet i could take him like that snivelling rat man took his laptop
Logged
Mikademus
Level 10
*****


The Magical Owl


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2011, 01:08:39 PM »

I think that is about exactly what I too wrote.
I typed it with my toes for extra dramatic impact.
Oh, JWK5, will these one-upmanships between us never cease? We're like two titans locked in an eternal Sisyphean struggle that no one can ever win.
Logged

\\\"There\\\'s a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,\\\" says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex. --IGN<br />My compilation of game engines for indies
JWK5
Guest
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2011, 01:12:04 PM »

I think that is about exactly what I too wrote.
I typed it with my toes for extra dramatic impact.
Oh, JWK5, will these one-upmanships between us never cease? We're like two titans locked in an eternal Sisyphean struggle that no one can ever win.
At first I thought that said "syphilis struggle", I was about to say if you're going to proposition me you'd better have a pre-order receipt for Skyrim in your hand.
Logged
Mikademus
Level 10
*****


The Magical Owl


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2011, 01:40:15 PM »

I think that is about exactly what I too wrote.
I typed it with my toes for extra dramatic impact.
Oh, JWK5, will these one-upmanships between us never cease? We're like two titans locked in an eternal Sisyphean struggle that no one can ever win.
At first I thought that said "syphilis struggle", I was about to say if you're going to proposition me you'd better have a pre-order receipt for Skyrim in your hand.
Elder Scrolls pre-order: check. Syphilis: fail. Sorry, I fulfilled most requirements but failed the "positive to at least one major STD" one. Have you tried Cactus lately?
Logged

\\\"There\\\'s a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,\\\" says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex. --IGN<br />My compilation of game engines for indies
---
Level 10
*****


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2011, 03:43:47 PM »

I just made a backup today and accidentally deleted the project files on my main drive. The backup saved me! I AM SO HAPPY
Logged
starsrift
Level 10
*****


Apparently I am a ruiner of worlds. Ooops.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2011, 04:01:33 PM »

Kind of interesting, I posited a question about what people's sense of the viability of crowd-funding is in the wake of the fiasco, and the general response is, "-I- wouldn't do that". Methinks we doth protest too much. Whatever, I'm not trying to enforce any kind of on-topic-ness, just pointing out the obvious.  Tongue


I don't think it will be a fiasco for funding projects, although I do feel that they're somewhat of a fad that might fade out again in a couple of months...

Will this kill the funding idea? No, absolutely not. As long as there are outgoing Devs, that manage to invoke sympathy and an aura of collegiality and professionalism, there will be individual stories of success. The whole indiscriminate trust, indie games have gathered over the years, for being a place of unrestricted ideas and down to earth people, will however suffer from this. It'll also suffer from the hubris issues and the fierce art debates. It'll be interesting to see if Indie Games can keep gathering enough trust to outweigh the trust tarnishing actions of a few but prominent figures.

Kind of an interesting opinion, and I'm not sure I follow. You think it'll fade, but remain.
I do point out, though, that "hubris issues" and "art debates" are kind of "behind doors" arguments that indies have always had, as well as other creative sorts such as artists and musicians and novelists. The public audience doesn't care too much about them, evidenced so far, though I grant you that could change, I don't see it happening.

I do agree, I think that very indiscriminate trust in indies that you mention will suffer, but I don't think that's Indie Stone's fault. I think the gaming public has forgotten a couple things - that indies are people, and people have responses. I think indies have gained an undeserved trust, just by being what we are, an alternative to share-holder owned and watered-down ideas. In the end, that's probably a good thing.
Logged

"Vigorous writing is concise." - William Strunk, Jr.
As is coding.

I take life with a grain of salt.
And a slice of lime, plus a shot of tequila.
moi
Level 10
*****


DILF SANTA


View Profile WWW
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2011, 07:00:14 PM »

They should re-implement all their previous work done even if the new result doesn't look as good as before or if it limps a bit. An then they should call it PROJECT ZOMBOID!
Logged

subsystems   subsystems   subsystems
Rob Lach
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2011, 01:58:13 PM »

My opinion is that they tarnished the indie label by being idiotic developers.

I've never met anyone who doesn't have an offsite backup via source control / dropbox / rsync, and if you're a "pro" developer taking money for your shitty games, you better act like one.

Personally my entire development partition gets synced every night to an offsite vps which I pay like $10/month. That's 2 pre-sales for project zomboid.
Logged

Zaphos
Guest
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2011, 02:22:16 PM »

This link appears to have gotten nuked, had to go to google cache to find it -- so for convenience, here's a copy paste of the text from the cache:
Quote from: lemmy
Please note these opinions are purely my own and not necessarily shared by any other member of Indie Stone.

Okay I’m gonna bitch again. It’s what I do from time to time. I know I’m bleating on about a massive minority and the vast vast majority of people who have bought our game are sexy awesome people.

So yesterday we spent £800 quid on a new Mac Book so we could finally give Mac users the support they deserve for the game. We have no love for Macs, personally, so this is not a toy or gadget. That Mac Book was bought purely for testing the game on, and developing a launcher for the game on. Nothing else. It’s not the first substantial expense we’ve made for the sake of the game, either.

So today, Saturday, I set my alarm for 9am. We got this update to get out there, you see. The big update. The one that makes the game more like our original vision. Gotta get it out! We’ve been working pretty solidly on it since it was announced. When you have a 9-5 job you leave at 5 (ignoring overtime) and don’t take your work home with you. In our case the work is at home, literally, and is close to your heart, so you end up working ridiculous amount of hours on it.

If I were working for an actual boss the amount of hours a week I work would likely get that boss into a lot of trouble.

But it’s okay, because I love it. This is the most exciting part of my life. So I get up on Saturday at 9am and sit down at my PC to work on the update. Then, at some stage, I check my mail.

Quote
Hi there,

Not sure if this is possible but at this moment in time I feel that is game isn’t getting as much love as it used to before it went massively popular (by that I mean less and less updates from the devs) and at this moment in time I would like to request a refund on the game if possible please.

This is by no means the first, and it definitely won’t be the last, I think if people knew the volume of this kinda crap they would be astonished. It’s just the particular wording that curdles my stomach to the point of writing a blog post to vent it. But here lies the one downfall of this distribution model. This guy paid £5 for our game. £5…

Even though I would have argued against the prospect when we first released, at this stage there are hours of gameplay to be had playing the game. Pound for pound compared to AAA titles, I think the money per hour cost of the game is already pretty damn good. Just to these people, the fact that there ARE going to be updates means somehow there has to be a constant unending stream of substantial updates otherwise suddenly the existing game is worth nothing. Despite the fact that 99% of games you purchase you do so and that’s it. DLC and expansions and patches aside, they never improve. And that’s fine.

If he’d spent £5 on a game from Steam, he would not get the option of a refund. They say:

Quote
As with most downloadable software products, we do not offer refunds for purchases made through Steam

Most downloadable software products, eh? Well through ‘the dark ages’ where we had all those issues, we offered refunds because we felt it was fair. That being, that people who purchased the game had absolutely nothing to show for it, since the most up to date version was the demo version. However now people who purchase have character customization and extensive modding (as well as an already substantial and growing number of mods available) so people have got something for their £5. And in the non-too-distant future they will have saving, a new map section (that’s taken bloody ages to make and the solid work of half the dev team for weeks) and quite substantial NPC improvements.

The game it will be then will definitely be worth £5, in fact we’re considering (after some warning after the update goes out) increasing the price a little at that stage. Truth is that despite being “massively popular” as this fellow says (I think we have different definitions of ‘massively’. Minecraft is ‘massively popular’, we’re ‘quite popular’) we’re still at the stage where we worry about spending £800 out of the blue on a Mac Book, and while comfortable we are by no means rolling about in cash. We can’t keep it at a fiver forever simply because there are a lot of us working on this game, it’s not just one guy needing an income here.

And we can’t afford to give everyone a refund just because they think the next update is taking a little longer than you’d like to come out. Especially when the bloody update is only taking so long because it’s so damn substantial. Unlike last time, where we were full of apologies, I make NO apologies for the length of time this update takes to come out. None whatsoever. Even if it were another week, or another two. It’s damn worth the wait, I know it is, and the body of work involved in getting it out there had been immense, and also has gotten to the stage where we couldn’t do it in the background and release updates alongside it. It was all or nothing.

We’re always quick to hold our hands up when we feel we’ve failed or taken too long. People who have followed the game will know how pathetically apologetic we tend to get. Well not this time, no siree.

If you want save on quit, multiple map sections and clever NPCs, this is just the wait you need to endure, and you should be pleased you’re enduring it now and not in six months time, since it means after enduring it you have those features soon and not in 6 months time… you know, the #1 requested features by our community beside multiplayer?

So, sat here at 2pm on a Saturday, after working since 9am and I read that mail telling me I’m not showing the game enough love. What do I do then?

I write this blog post, and then I go sit on the sofa to play Deus Ex.

Well done dickhead, the update’s just been delayed because the guy coding the saving and the NPCs has decided that instead of slogging through it all weekend, he should instead have the rest of the weekend off and finally relax a bit, because he’ll only get accused of ‘having less love’ by somebody, regardless. And all that poor awesome majority who have been nothing but supportive will probably have to wait a bit longer for the update, and will likely still be supportive of us and the project. How’s that fair?

Well, it’s fair to me, because I could use a few hours playing Deus Ex to unwind, to be honest. And ironically, by not only chilling out playing games all weekend but also gloating over the fact I’m going to do so in this blog, the only people who I’m probably like to piss off are those who are mean, rude, impatient and tend to make me feel bad, and those who are supportive and cool will likely be all for me taking the weekend off anyway. Awesome!

And that goes to everyone who starts getting all grumpy because they feel their £5 should entitle them to 24/7 development from the dev team and daily updates and start sending us emails or making antagonistic posts on our forum or blog. You’re not ‘giving us a kick up the arse’ and making us work harder to get the update our quicker. That’s not possible. All you do is stress us out, piss us off and make us feel less inclined to work around the clock. That’s the moral of this story.

Any one else want to send an email?

TL;DR: Man, Deus Ex is so much more fun than fixing saving bugs. PEW PEW PEW!
Logged
team_q
Level 10
*****


Divide by everything is fine and nothing is wrong.

team_q@hotmail.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2011, 03:20:40 PM »

I can totally understand being in his position after what happened. I'm suprised at the complete lack of empathy that the internet displayed. Dude's life is ripped apart and instead of trying to band together to support them, we scoff and call him a fool.
Logged

Dirty Rectangles

_PRINCE OF ARCADE_
deathtotheweird
Guest
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2011, 04:23:53 PM »

Quote
TL;DR: Man, Deus Ex is so much more fun than fixing saving bugs. PEW PEW PEW!

 Beer! I'd buy a beer for this guy irl.

I can see why he gets so pissed off. His fan-base is fucking retarded.
Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2011, 04:50:42 PM »

I just made a backup today and accidentally deleted the project files on my main drive. The backup saved me! I AM SO HAPPY

couldn't recycle bin have saved you? i mean, i can sort of understand accidentally deleting files (even though it's never happened to me), but how can you accidentally clear the recycle bin after you've accidentally deleted files?
Logged

ஒழுக்கின்மை
Level 10
*****


Also known as रिंकू.

RinkuHero
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2011, 05:02:49 PM »

My opinion is that they tarnished the indie label by being idiotic developers.

i don't think there's such a thing as an "indie label" -- that's like saying that an individualist is a "type" of person. it's sort of a contradiction in terms

also, i've never heard of these guys until this whole thing happened. so i don't think they're famous enough for what they do to affect how people think of indies

another thing: regarding "professionalism", i think the word kind of lacks precision here

in one sense, there are professionals who do things just because they're the standard thing to do, and who are overly polite to customers when talking to them directly, but secretly do things which harm customers and don't really care about them. professionals usually treat people nicely but secretly don't care about them and try to screw them over. zynga is professional in that sense. that's the kind of professionalism we should avoid

in another sense, professionalism just means being competent at what you do; making backups, finding a way to make things work regardless of what is commonly done, always having a plan B, etc. that's the kind of professionalism we should strive for, but we certainly can do without the first kind
Logged

---
Level 10
*****


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2011, 05:03:26 PM »

I just made a backup today and accidentally deleted the project files on my main drive. The backup saved me! I AM SO HAPPY

couldn't recycle bin have saved you? i mean, i can sort of understand accidentally deleting files (even though it's never happened to me), but how can you accidentally clear the recycle bin after you've accidentally deleted files?

I use shift-delete because I don't know why.
Logged
C.A. Silbereisen
Schlagerstar
Global Moderator
Level 10
******


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2011, 05:23:50 PM »

I can see why he gets so pissed off. His fan-base is fucking retarded.
I guess but I also think he lets it get to him too much. Yeah some people are spoiled brats with a sense of entitlement but who cares what they think? There's probably a "silent majority" of people who are content with the game and the way it is (was?) being developed.

I can't think of a single case where complaining about "haters" on the internet has solved any problems. On the contrary. The Minecraft (another crowdfunded project) fanbase consists of at least 70% dumb nerdraging kids too, but I've never seen Notch make a post like the one Jimmy quoted anywhere.
Logged

deathtotheweird
Guest
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2011, 05:50:37 PM »

I guess but I also think he lets it get to him too much. Yeah some people are spoiled brats with a sense of entitlement but who cares what they think? There's probably a "silent majority" of people who are content with the game and the way it is (was?) being developed.

I can't think of a single case where complaining about "haters" on the internet has solved any problems. On the contrary. The Minecraft (another crowdfunded project) fanbase consists of at least 70% dumb nerdraging kids too, but I've never seen Notch make a post like the one Jimmy quoted anywhere.

I don't see it complaining as much as I see it as venting. Some people handle stress differently. Lemmy is stressed about an update  and checks his email and sees one like that-it's hard to blame him for being pissed off. Not everyone has the ability to control their emotions, and everyone responds to stress differently. His solution was to play Deus Ex and vent on his blog. I don't see anything wrong with that. Sure it's easy to say "well he shouldn't have gotten mad" or "he lets it get to him too much", but who the fuck are you telling people how they should feel?

Notch's reaction to nerd-raging kids is irrelevant. They are different people, despite working on projects that both happen to be crowd-funded, they have hardly any similarities to each other. Comparing Lemmy to Notch is about the dumbest thing you could have said. Congrats.
Logged
C.A. Silbereisen
Schlagerstar
Global Moderator
Level 10
******


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2011, 06:03:43 PM »

yeah well tbh i don't understand why people publicly "vent" on the internet. i sometimes get pissed off by things i read on tigsource too (such as your post just now and your other posts where you told me i'm a bad mod a short while ago) but the great thing about a forum (or blog) is that you're not interacting with people in realtime and have to type out your response before other people can read it. i've abandoned a lot of half-written angry replies to posts here on tigs because my anger had subsided before i finished them and i realized they were stupid replies.

and i'm not allowed to say that one person handled a situation better than another person? what?
Shrug

ps: if you can't control your emotions it's your problem and you should try doing something about it instead of expecting others to tolerate your behavior.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 06:10:13 PM by C.A. Sinclair » Logged

deathtotheweird
Guest
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2011, 06:11:42 PM »

Quote
and i'm not allowed to say that one person handled a situation better than another person? what?

no, you aren't. unless their situations were 100% identical, it just makes you look like an ass.

Quote
but the great thing about a forum (or blog) is that you're not interacting with people in realtime and have to type out your response before other people can read it. i've abandoned a lot of half-written angry replies to posts here on tigs because my anger had subsided before i finished them.

perhaps the liberating part is when you know the people who piss you are reading it?

Quote
if you can't control your emotions it's your problem and you should try doing something about it instead of expecting others to tolerate your behavior.

why should he, or me, or anyone else have to do something about it? just because you don't like it? how about you don't read his blog if you don't like it? if you don't like his outbursts on twitter, just don't follow him on twitter. no one is forcing you to tolerate his behavior.
Logged
C.A. Silbereisen
Schlagerstar
Global Moderator
Level 10
******


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2011, 06:13:45 PM »

maybe, but usually it causes the "haters" to hate you even more. it's a downward spiral. i still stand by my assertion that blind rage has never solved anything, speaking from experience.

also: i've never played project zomboid and didn't know who this "lemmy" guy even was until the current drama. so obviously i'm not following him on twitter (i don't even have a twitter account btw) or reading his blog.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 06:26:09 PM by C.A. Sinclair » Logged

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic