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[Mipe]

I think he meant the, um, you know, them curves...

[stevesan]

I think he meant the, um, you know, them curves...

Haha yeah that sure doesn't hurt the appeal..

[stevesan]

Right mix of tmosphere is definitely necessary.

Having a unique concept helps a lot (but you can take an overused, beaten-to-death concept and make an extremely popular game out of it because, again, polish and atmosphere can play huge roles).

Length doesn't seem to make any difference about how much the game can sell. I mean, even with reviews and descriptions, you never really know how long a game is until you play it (Tales of Symphonia is extremely long, VVVVVV is extremely short).

Production value is a great way to hire those people who can polish the game (more detailed graphics, better-orchestrated music, programmers who can put in better effects, etc). But even people with no money can make a beautifully-polished game. Simple things like text fading in and out, menus swooping in from outside of the screen, voice acting, cutscenes, points attained hovering above character's head before disappearing (I think some Legend of Zelda games had the latest rupee attained hover above your head).

Hmm you make a good point about length not being a huge factor, past a certain threshold. Portal was only around 2 hours, being generous, but I thoroughly enjoyed it and did not feel ripped off at all (and it was a damn good deal with the orange box). The perceived uniqueness and originality of the game and the sheer quality of the experience made it worth it. Same with Braid, although Braid is much longer and denser than most puzzle games out there - with almost zero filler. So I think length matters, but in a very complex way beyond just "longer is better."

I guess when it comes down to it, presentation does matter a lot to the "value" of a game. People can kind of tell subconsciously how much effort has been put in a game. All those little details add up, and when they're not there, the perceived value is naturally diminished. With a game like "Trine," you can really see the love that is put into the art. Same with Braid and Portal. Little touches like the Companion Cube don't just happy accidentally.

There's also just the "coolness" factor. I'm all for SpaceChem, but it definitely does not have the "cool" factor.

[Paul Eres]

if you think portal is cooler than spacechem you have a weird understanding of cool

[rivon]

It is cooler for me too... I didn't really play Spacechem but it didn't catch me from the trailers, screenshots etc. Portal did. I really wanted to play it. Spacechem not.

[Paul Eres]

portal is steve jobs cool

spacechem is jocelyn bell burnell cool

[allen]

portal is cool because it makes me feel smart even though I'm dumb

spacechem is dumb because it makes me feel dumb because I am dumb

[stevesan]

if you think portal is cooler than spacechem you have a weird understanding of cool

Well all this is just my own opinion really. Some people agree with me, some don't. I enjoy and value games like Braid and Portal, so I think they're cool and worth buying, and so I want to make games like those. If you disagree that's cool too.

I guess the title of this thread should really be, "Why do I like games like Braid and Portal more than other puzzle games?"

[rivon]

portal is steve jobs cool

spacechem is jocelyn bell burnell cool

Who's Jocelyn Bell Burnell?

[dustin]

portal is steve jobs cool

spacechem is jocelyn bell burnell cool

Who's Jocelyn Bell Burnell?

astrophysicist who discovered pulsars



For me Braid and Portal stand out because they are such tight experiences.  They both felt like they had no fluff and were smooth to play through.

That said spacechem feels the same for me and I feel like the reason it didn't do as well as the other two is just target markets.

Spacechem is super complicated and only going to appeal to a limited group of people, it has a pretty narrow scope of people who look at it and say wow that's cool.

Portal and Braid almost anyone who sees the concepts/demos of them is going to say wow that looks cool.  They have a much bigger market size.

[XRA]

I like how all these games have their fitting stereotype in my head    I don't think any of them can be compared to each other, they are all very unique and provide more than just being a bare bones puzzle game.

[ThePortalGuru]

This thread is making me nervous. I'm working on a Flash game with the intent on creating something smart and atmospheric like these game you guys have mentioned. I'd like to think the people who play Flash games would like something like this as a change of pace from the norm - but maybe the audience just isn't that interested in smart or 'arty' games...

Then again it's probably not wise to generalize 'people who play flash games'. I feel like most internet users have played at least one flash game in their life right?

There are a few games that do break this norm.  Chronotron and The Company of Myself come to mind.  Most flash games are just looking to be simple and addicting, but I think atmosphere is something flash devs should be paying more attention to.

[stevesan]

I like how all these games have their fitting stereotype in my head    I don't think any of them can be compared to each other, they are all very unique and provide more than just being a bare bones puzzle game.

You're certainly right, but inevitably, people will compare and contrast and categorize. It's just how humans need to organize things for themselves. It's the essence of marketing really, and the whole idea of "positioning." Perhaps I should've posted this thread in the business forum instead

[forwardresent]

Personally I think it was the personality of the games that made them so special.

[C.D Buckmaster]

To me (being a huge Braid and Portal fan), it's because are both oozing with charm and personality.

Braid uses its mechanics as a metaphor for the frustrations of a lover, and it's environment provides a unique experience with its impressionism inspired artwork and endearing soundtrack.

Portal plays with the room by room gameplay of puzzle games by hinting towards a greater, darker backstory, through the increasingly suspicious remarks by Glados and the hidden rooms.

Their mechanics made them good games, but their charm made them great games.