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July 31, 2014, 07:44:37 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderators: Glaiel-Gamer, ThemsAllTook)Construct 2 vs Game Maker vs Game Salad vs Stencyl
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Author Topic: Construct 2 vs Game Maker vs Game Salad vs Stencyl  (Read 11088 times)
ScirraTom
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« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2011, 08:48:00 PM »

Hi DesertDog,

Thanks for the feedback!  Will pass the gmz tip on to Ash to make sure he knows and make sure the GM project is accessible.  I'll also wait until tomorrow for a proper answer about how Construct 2 works as Ashley is the expert there.

As you mention this benchmark really is only one small test in an ocean of possible tests!  However with good testing you always aim to isolate things.  Here we've isolated something that's easily replicable and shows what we believe is a good indicator for performance.  A complex, difficult to reproduce test would get a lot more criticism than we've already received.

It's also going to get the ball rolling for more benchmarks hopefully.  Quantifying performance like this is a good way to keep everyone competitive, and at the end of the day benefit the users in the Indie community.  We're very confident Construct 2 will come out well in whatever benchmark you throw at it though.  Would obviously be very interested in seeing a YoYoGames benchmark let me know if one ever become available!

Tom
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Tom Gullen<br />Scirra.com
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2011, 06:06:01 AM »

Well, the test isn't really telling much. Games isn't just sprites. It's also sounds, music playing in the background, physics, pathfinding and AI, input handling etc. All those need to be fast, not only the graphics.
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AshleysBrain
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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2011, 11:05:57 AM »

Hey, Ashley from Scirra here, Tom asked me to answer this point:

I could see from the files that you were creating a new instance of an object for every 'sprite' in your test. Objects are.. well, objects are 'heavier'. you don't just use them to draw a sprite.. there are particles, tiles, or one object that draws multiple sprites.

May I ask how your Construct2 test worked? E.g. did you do you have an 'object' equivalent, and where you creating a new one for EVERY new sprite?
Construct 2 doesn't separate objects and sprites like GM does.  A Sprite in Construct 2 is an object which contains its own sprite.  We wanted to make the test fair so we took the same approach with all the tools.  This was also intentional since the point was to measure the overhead of the game engine in the renderer - they aren't meant to be images which a bit of code just paints to the screen, but full blown objects in the engine.  The test isn't simulating some particle effect, it's trying to simulate a really big game.  GM came relatively close to Construct 2 so I thought it was a fair comparison since I thought the engines had the same job to do.

Does that help clear up what we were trying to do?  As Tom said we're happy to see other benchmarks, we did this test out of a genuine belief Construct 2 has the fastest renderer out there.  And of course there are many other aspects of an engine to measure, so we're happy to see results for other things too.
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Desert Dog
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« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2011, 02:07:19 PM »

Hi Ash,

Yes, that clarified a lot! A sprite for me is an image. :D

It's a bit of an apples&oranges case, tbh, however, your point that C2's 'base object' is light-weight compared to other programs seems to be fair enough, so congrats on that. May arguably make it more useful when devving for phones, and other weak devices. However, a base object, and a game are two different things, and I've had fine results with GM so far. Wink

I've posted your blog post over at the GMC:
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=525101&st=0&gopid=3866532&#entry3866532

Where it would seem most of us misinterpret what 'sprite' meant. However, I must warn you that the GMC has a very strict 'no discuss similar tools' rule, and if you do wish to join in&clarify something, etc, but then somewhere along the lines a mod closes the topic, well, just don't be too surprised. Tongue It'd just be one of many topics about other products which have been closed in the past, nothing personal at all.

(I've linked to this topic enough times, so anyone seriously interested can come read here anyway)

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 02:15:18 PM by Desert Dog » Logged

jack_dracon
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« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2011, 04:59:14 PM »

Quote from: jack_dracon
Hi, I am not a bot?! =D

Wait. You aren't sure if you are a bot or not? Man, that's so Philip K. Dick.

Hahaha. BladeRunner is awesome and a classic too!
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jotapeh
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2011, 08:18:49 AM »

OK having seen the source code for the performance test and running it myself, it does seem fair for what it's meant to do, which is draw a lot of semi-transparent blue squares all over the stage.

So if you're writing a game with a lot of translucent sprites which need to be made translucent on the fly and not have the alpha already adjusted in a source image, this is definitely a considerable performance benchmark.

Mostly relevant to games which use particle systems, water effects and such other graphical eye candy, I think - which is definitely something fun for artists to play with.

Quote
If WebGL doesn't render properly, it might be a driver issue which wouldn't be our fault but the graphics vendors fault (are you using the latest drivers?)

Yes, I am - but it doesn't work.. and even if this did solve my issue, I can't really ask the person playing my casual web game made in Construct or Stencyl or GameSalad to download the latest drivers. It's a casual web game so they'll just move along to the next one that works properly.

To describe the problem (in case you're interested in checking it out and maybe trying to fix it) it has an extremely high framerate and tens of thousands of objects without ever slowing down, but the actual display of blue squares is only updated once every 2-3 seconds in 'hiccups'.

It happens on both my Macs - desktop and macbook pro - in the latest Chrome, so I'm pretty sure you can reproduce this without much trouble if you check it out on a friend's Mac maybe?
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Desert Dog
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« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2011, 01:21:45 PM »

Quote
OK having seen the source code for the performance test and running it myself, it does seem fair for what it's meant to do, which is draw a lot of semi-transparent blue squares all over the stage.

So if you're writing a game with a lot of translucent sprites which need to be made translucent on the fly and not have the alpha already adjusted in a source image, this is definitely a considerable performance benchmark.

Mostly relevant to games which use particle systems, water effects and such other graphical eye candy, I think - which is definitely something fun for artists to play with.

If that was the case, then they chose the worst possible way to do it in GM. Meaning the test wouldn't be fair at all.

In Ashley's words:
Quote
The test isn't simulating some particle effect, it's trying to simulate a really big game.

But it didn't do this, either. all it proved is that an empty Construct 'object/sprite' is lighter than an empty GM object. These are similar, but NOT equivalent things. That's a pretty moot point when it comes to actual game logic, and collisions, etc etc etc. The apparent 'heavy' ness of the GM object compared to the C2 sprite is more than made up with then.

So it does prove something, but in the end, it's apples&oranges. Others call it a meangingless test, I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but it certainly the impression that C2 is way faster than it's competitors is completely inaccurate.

The Scirra team are out to prove their the fastest. The only way they can really conclusively do that is by creating some amazing tech demo's that blow their opposition away. They have some nice stuff, but so far, it's only on par with GM-html5 'at best'.

*doesn't know anything about stencyl, gamesalad, etc, so no comment there*
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jotapeh
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« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2011, 01:39:31 PM »

Yeah, I don't think that's a fair description of the test (at least the Stencyl version.)

They've got Stencyl drawing the sprite at 0.2 percent opacity every frame, when it would probably be much better to simply have a sprite with 20% opacity. It's cool to show the speed of your engine drawing at dynamic opacities, but not a typical game engine thing to do, except with particles or other effects.
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jack_dracon
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« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2011, 04:13:49 PM »

I have a little simple question, the Construct 2 has the better performance on Google Chrome, but doesn't in other browser?
That is my conclusion from the replies.(Am I wrong?)
Until now, any software what is using WebGL is only working fine on Chrome.
So Construct (what I know as a good tool because a friend of mine is using for a game - Talbot - and recommended a lot, isn't the new Construct) team is focusing on the future of maintain of the tool, or was a choice for a better performance?
Because, this tools doesn't have a roadmap for future updates, and that makes me curious about this vision from the team behind these tools, what they want for the future of the tools? Am I wrong to quest this info?
Nice day! =D
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Trevor Dunbar
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2011, 05:03:50 AM »

Is there any update on fixing the broke-ness of sound in HTML 5?
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Toucantastic.
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