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[C.A. Sinner]

lol we just talked about noctis a page or so back. good to see it get some love here.

[J. R. Hill]

Do you think there are bad/unfun genres, or only bad/unfun executions of those genres?

[Paul Eres]

there's no such thing as a genre absent the games that make it up. a genre is just a name for a series of similar games. games are not executions of a genre, a genre is an attempt to categories a set of games that play alike

[J. R. Hill]

Fine, I will play your game of semantics, tea sipping man.  But I'm not sure you'll like where this rabbit hole may lead to.
 

*bad/unfun executions within those genres.

[Wireless Mouse]

A lot of developers experimented with hybrids a long time ago. Consider Battlezone the action-RTS hybrid. Good idea, poorly balanced. Sacrifice was another action-RTS hybrid that was pretty amazing at the time but sold poorly. These kinds of games have a lot of unexplored potential, I think.

Tactical RTS (Myth, Ground Control, World in Conflict) is another genre with great potential that never got very far, though there are turn-based games closely related. Myth and Fire Emblem are not all that unrelated, for example. These tactical RTS games seem to have folded into THQ RTS games like Dawn of War and Company of Heroes, which add base construction, tech trees and unit replenishment back in.

There are several old "genres" of games that have died out because developers failed to innovate. Consider games like Wing Commander and Mechwarrior. Unfortunately the gameplay in these games becomes exceedingly stale, but there is nothing preventing someone from advancing these kinds of games into modernity.

[mcc]

What frustrates me about morals/ethics in games is that usually when this happens it comes in the form of the game forcing you to do something, then trying to guilt you for it.

[J. R. Hill]

Or having zero consequences for your actions aside from the guilt trip and/or pat on the back.  Some games have "consequences" like if you're good, some thieves' guild will chase you, and if you're bad, law enforcement will chase you.  So basically you end up with the same game either way, just a different flavor.

It would be cool to have some different consequences, like say you steal stuff a lot.  Then you go into a store and the shopkeeper gets a bad vibe from the way you're looking at his goods.  So he tells you something like, "I've got my eye on you, and a shotgun under this desk" and restricts the way you can shop (e.g. let me see how much you've got on you before you step into the expensive goods area).  Thus making the player rethink their thievery, either paying or more sneaky stunts or armed robbery.

Or if you typically go for the "good" answers in conversations, and ask probing questions, people start being able to sense that you're a good listener and open up to you more.

[Player Ʒ]

Or having zero consequences for your actions aside from the guilt trip and/or pat on the back.  Some games have "consequences" like if you're good, some thieves' guild will chase you, and if you're bad, law enforcement will chase you.  So basically you end up with the same game either way, just a different flavor.

It would be cool to have some different consequences, like say you steal stuff a lot.  Then you go into a store and the shopkeeper gets a bad vibe from the way you're looking at his goods.  So he tells you something like, "I've got my eye on you, and a shotgun under this desk" and restricts the way you can shop (e.g. let me see how much you've got on you before you step into the expensive goods area).  Thus making the player rethink their thievery, either paying or more sneaky stunts or armed robbery.

Or if you typically go for the "good" answers in conversations, and ask probing questions, people start being able to sense that you're a good listener and open up to you more.

I heard of stealing back in LoZ: Link's Awakening, but not of the consequences. It's worse than attempting to kill a chicken, as there's no way out!

[J. R. Hill]

Enter any door/cave/temple entrance, and all your violent past is forgotten.

[Gimym TILBERT]

The fact is consequence are not gameplay options, they are gameplay restrictions or punishment.

For ewemple:
If you need to bath your character from blood after a fierce battle, what's the gameplay of having to bath your character? Is it fun or interesting? Does he keep the flow of gameplay? Is a real meaningful choice.

Aswering those question are key, if it turn off NPC only it's a punishment for fighting, if it buff your character it's an unnecessary check up (why not clean the character directly since you have no choice but to do it), if it does nothing it's a cosmetic flavor that will quickly feel out of place (dragon age).

If you can found an answer for even trivial blood bath you are a genius.

[IzzyReggie]

If you can found an answer for even trivial blood bath you are a genius.

If you're all bloody, NPC's don't like you, and it will attract monsters, but it will also deter enemies and intimidate them. There, a meaningful gameplay choice!

[Woodwolf]

If you can found an answer for even trivial blood bath you are a genius.

If you're all bloody, NPC's don't like you, and it will attract monsters, but it will also deter enemies and intimidate them. There, a meaningful gameplay choice!

I'm still waiting for a game that, after throwing creatures at you for a while (which may look ugly and dangerous), stops the action and asks the player "but why? why are you doing this? did this beast do something wrong? why can't you be friends? Have you tried TALKING to them or just being nice?"

That would be quite a surprise in a "stranded in an alien planet" setting, for example. You beat the game because local inhabitants end up accepting you as one of their own... not because their civilization collapses under your superior firepower.

[rek]

I'm still waiting for a game that, after throwing creatures at you for a while (which may look ugly and dangerous), stops the action and asks the player "but why? why are you doing this? did this beast do something wrong? why can't you be friends? Have you tried TALKING to them or just being nice?"

This is something I've been thinking of lately. It's a given that you can/are supposed to kill virtually any creature you come across (and sometimes be rewarded for it), and that any you encounter can/want to hurt you too.

Games with ethical feedback will keep track of harm done to NPCs, but what about the lowly slimes and motile mushrooms? We know what happens if you beat up a chicken in Zelda games, and some achievement-incorporating games will reward you for beating a level without killing anything. Is there any unexplored gameplay territory here?

What about "monsters" that mind their own business, run away when attacked, or won't do any damage if you happen to overlap? This might up the realism factor, but is there anything else there?

[1982]

I'd like to see some very realistic and serious adventure/exploration games. Biosys was in this direction, but the actual exploration part is quite limited as those who played it knows.

There is also game called Explorer for C64 which could be think as spiritual father...

Myst is also similar, but that tend to be too much biased to fantasy setting and has quite a lot puzzle solving.

[DavidCaruso]

If you can found an answer for even trivial blood bath you are a genius.

If you're all bloody, NPC's don't like you, and it will attract monsters, but it will also deter enemies and intimidate them. There, a meaningful gameplay choice!

I'm still waiting for a game that, after throwing creatures at you for a while (which may look ugly and dangerous), stops the action and asks the player "but why? why are you doing this? did this beast do something wrong? why can't you be friends? Have you tried TALKING to them or just being nice?"

I can't really imagine this being effective at all. I mean, imagine if Die Hard just stopped the action halfway through and HANS GRUBER HAS A FAMILY (actually the third movie kind of showed his family but..lol). It's something which has to be emphasized from the beginning as an option, it'll only be annoying and jarring if halfway through the game it suddenly switches from balls-to-wall action to social mechanics.

also there's the issue of talking to the beast when you don't even know what language they speak