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Author Topic: Indie Brawl: Main Characters  (Read 287099 times)
Soulliard
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« Reply #1220 on: April 05, 2011, 09:22:41 AM »

Problems with Steve:
-He's not much of a character. He has no personality and you don't even see him normally.
-His potential moves are generic. All of his attacks in Minecraft involve either swinging or shooting common weapons.
-Creating solid blocks causes problem with clipping.
-The most iconic part of Minecraft is the game world, which is better represented with a level than a character.

Problems with Taunts:
-It would require adding another key to the controls, which means more complexity and more keylocking.
-It requires an additional animation for each character, which is a ton of extra work.
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irishladdie727
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« Reply #1221 on: April 05, 2011, 12:23:54 PM »

Problems with Steve:
-He's not much of a character. He has no personality and you don't even see him normally.
-His potential moves are generic. All of his attacks in Minecraft involve either swinging or shooting common weapons.
-Creating solid blocks causes problem with clipping.
-The most iconic part of Minecraft is the game world, which is better represented with a level than a character.

Problems with Taunts:
-It would require adding another key to the controls, which means more complexity and more keylocking.
-It requires an additional animation for each character, which is a ton of extra work.

-That's entirely your opinion.  We were seriously considering the Dwarf Fortress Dwarf for a while, who is a @. Steve?'s character is inherently tied to Minecraft's character: he's creative, industrious, violent towards animals and plantlife alike, and terrified of creepers.  He's everybody's favorite crazy hermit.  He's however you choose to play the game.  Plus you could easily say the same for Liero, who has no personality and is just a low-res palette swappable worm, and not even a specific one.  Spelunky, Xoda, Castle Crasher, Lyle, and Madotsuki are all silent protagonists with only the personality the player gives them beyond their intial character design.
-Again, very much an opinion.  I incorporated some unique stuff like Jumping off of blocks and pouring lava into there, and that's only one possible moveset.  We could have him riding around on pigs or reeling people in with a fishing rod.  The number of things you can do in Minecraft, seemingly limitless and increasing with every update, are the number of potential moves Steve? could have. Plus "generic weapons" shouldn't exclude him from inclusion.  It's how the moves work, not their physical appearance, that's important.  Almost all fighting games save for the Soul Series and Smash Bros. can be boiled down to a cast of mostly "guys who punch, kick, and occasionally hurl energy at each other."
-That's unfortunate since that would be a really cool move, I guess you guys came across that with Lyle, but again, any number of things could be his >S, including changing the egg throw to a highly spammable projectile with low damage and no knockback.  Like Fox's laser except an egg.
-No reason there can't be a stage and a character right? Do the other characters have stages?

Like I said, I've yet to hear a convincing argument. Minecraft is an enormous part of the Indie games scene lately and really ought to be represented by more than just a stage.

As for the Taunts, I don't know anything about the coding so I'm willing to concede that.  The animations themselves wouldn't be that difficult to create but I suppose there might be issues incorporating them into the game.
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Sir Raptor
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« Reply #1222 on: April 05, 2011, 02:13:35 PM »

The Minecraft scenario is the polar opposite of the Touhou scenario; whereas one has a larger focus on the characters rather than the world, the other focuses entirely on the world. A great majority of first-person games focus on the world, to make up for the fact that the main character is largely invisible. For that reason, Touhou is represented in the series with a playable character and an assist, and Minecraft is more likely to be represented with a stage.

Although there could definitely be a Minecraft assist, but it'll most likely be a creeper.
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Soulliard
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« Reply #1223 on: April 05, 2011, 03:55:34 PM »

-We were seriously considering the Dwarf Fortress Dwarf for a while, who is a @.Plus you could easily say the same for Liero, who has no personality and is just a low-res palette swappable worm, and not even a specific one.
Agreed. Understand that when this project began, there were far fewer iconic indie game characters, so the standards for inclusion weren't as high. But Dwarf has been removed from the roster, and Liero has plenty of unique weapons to justify his inclusion.

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Spelunky, Xoda, Castle Crasher, Lyle, and Madotsuki are all silent protagonists with only the personality the player gives them beyond their intial character design.
Silent doesn't equal soulless. Those characters have tons of personality revealed in their animations, and their role in their game's plot.

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We could have him riding around on pigs or reeling people in with a fishing rod.
It's not that it would be impossible to create a move list for Mr. Minecraft. It's just very difficult to create a move list that really reflects the character. Let's face it- Minecraft isn't remembered for the awesome combat maneuvers you can pull off. Most of the other characters in IB have iconic attacks and fighting styles that are incorporated into their move lists.

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-No reason there can't be a stage and a character right?
No, but see below...

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Like I said, I've yet to hear a convincing argument. Minecraft is an enormous part of the Indie games scene lately and really ought to be represented by more than just a stage.
I don't think you realize just how much work goes into making a single character. Since there are so many great characters to choose from, we need to consider the inclusions carefully. Including Mr. Minecraft means barring another character from inclusion.

Minecraft is getting a stage and a support character (the creeper), which gives it plenty of representation. Stages are a huge part of the game, so it isn't getting passed over.

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As for the Taunts, I don't know anything about the coding so I'm willing to concede that.  The animations themselves wouldn't be that difficult to create but I suppose there might be issues incorporating them into the game.
Creating a moderately long animation for 15 characters is a lot of work. It could easily end up taking over 40 hours to make them all, and frankly, it doesn't add much to the game. The coding part is easy, but the animation would be very time-consuming.
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Ego_Shiner
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« Reply #1224 on: April 05, 2011, 08:31:45 PM »

imo a minecraft character could be extremely interesting if you were willing to put a lot of thought into it (incorporating combinations/mining in somehow) but i agree that the game would probably be better represented by a stage
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« Reply #1225 on: April 05, 2011, 11:19:40 PM »

There's also the fact that we don't want to include characters from unfinished games, and since minecraft is getting new stuff all the time, that rule completely applies here.

Animation is the slowest part of Indie Brawl. Taunts would be some of the slowest animations to make. Since they aren't necessary, it's really just a huge waste of time.
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capn.lee
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« Reply #1226 on: April 06, 2011, 01:02:32 AM »

i agree, steve? isn't very interesting. he's intentionally very generic.
Creepers are interesting and the big blocky world are interesting.
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irishladdie727
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« Reply #1227 on: April 06, 2011, 11:54:49 AM »

I have been as they say, served.  I retract my request for Steve? to be a character.  Gentleman
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Rooky
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« Reply #1228 on: April 06, 2011, 10:41:23 PM »

I don't know how much of the Minecraft stage has been thought out, but an idea for it..
Having Steve? as a background character who's not touchable but slowly builds the stage up. So, a scrolling stage, basically, but it's built as it goes along, procedurally generated if anybody can code it. I don't know, just a thought.
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Landshark RAWR
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« Reply #1229 on: April 07, 2011, 04:13:03 PM »

the stage would be underground and steve would dig HOROZONTALLY
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nameless1
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« Reply #1230 on: June 03, 2011, 03:39:26 PM »

I don't know if anyone asked this already but does blue from assassin blue have a chance of being in this? That games tied with Iji for best indie on my list.

The game link:

http://gamejolt.com/freeware/games/platformer/assassin-blue/170/
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-Frikman-
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« Reply #1231 on: June 07, 2011, 12:12:04 PM »

He was suggested before as playable, but he's already a support character .____.
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« Reply #1232 on: June 09, 2011, 08:13:58 PM »

Ah, OK. Had an idea, didn't really want to bother reading all 83 pages of posts. Sorry for asking redundant questions.
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-Frikman-
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« Reply #1233 on: July 04, 2011, 07:35:51 AM »

Don't worry, it's k. Now, back on topic, I had an idea regarding Crate Boxer: What if he uses his different outfits for his attacks? like, he uses his ninja suit for sword attacks, the croc hat for the shotgun, astronaut suit for the laser, etc. This way everyone would be happy about costumes and we don't need to make an entire sheet for every good suit of the game :x
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« Reply #1234 on: July 04, 2011, 09:30:35 AM »

Don't worry, it's k. Now, back on topic, I had an idea regarding Crate Boxer: What if he uses his different outfits for his attacks? like, he uses his ninja suit for sword attacks, the croc hat for the shotgun, astronaut suit for the laser, etc. This way everyone would be happy about costumes and we don't need to make an entire sheet for every good suit of the game :x
I actually really like that idea, maybe he can flash white before turning into a new costume and attacking. It'd be pretty cool.
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BattleBeard
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« Reply #1235 on: July 06, 2011, 06:42:50 PM »

 Are characters from non-popular indie games counting?
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thewojnartist
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« Reply #1236 on: July 06, 2011, 09:30:06 PM »

Are characters from non-popular indie games counting?

No. We want recognizable icons rather than just any random character. No matter how good the game might be, it needs popularity to get in this game.
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Soulliard
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« Reply #1237 on: July 06, 2011, 10:15:38 PM »

They don't necessarily need to be super-popular, but they do need to be notable and well-known.
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Edspear
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« Reply #1238 on: July 09, 2011, 10:51:09 AM »

Okay its been a while since I've checked up on this game developmenty thingy forum. Anyways with regards to the character thing, Well I had this idea. How about Ghat from the 3d first-person beat-em-up game Zeno Clash? He has a wide set of recognizable moves karate fist-fighty punches, kicks, and grabs as well as a bomb toss attacks (skullbombs in game), as well as ranged and melee weapons, and has a neat look to him . Other than him maybe you can put in the villain Father Mother. Again, I feel she/he has a unique look and has plenty of resource material when it comes to fighting moves. And perhaps he/she could fill an antagonistic role in the future adventure mode? There is also so much more resources Zeno Clash could offer, including interesting settings and art assets, but such discussions would be best reserved for the Stage Design thread. Anyways thanks for reading.

Anyways here are some links to images and websites.
Zeno Clash Website: www.zenoclash.com
Ghat Image: http://www.videogamewriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/zenoclash_ultimateedition_characterart_ghat.jpg
Father Mother Image: http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID14825/images/zenoclash_ultimateedition_characterart_fathermother.jpg
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Radiant
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« Reply #1239 on: July 25, 2011, 03:59:19 AM »

I'm probably not the first one to ask, but shouldn't the Dwarf be named Urist? Smiley
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