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[Pietepiet]

Here's a small example for the hair. This is pretty much how I animated the Super Crate Box sprites themselves, just bigger.

I think the sprite in general needs a bit more cleaning up for some of the lines. Also, I liked the smaller eyes better, as those fit the style of the actual game more. Legs could also be a bit shorter (or have no feet), to capture the game's style even more.

[Soulliard]

I still think this is the better sprite. It has more character, better shading and better proportions. It just needs more detail in the hands.

[Pietepiet]

I agree. I was just giving Password an example for the hair animation, really.

The feet on that one (on all of them, actually) weird me out though. Might be better if he had stumps like in SCB?

[Logabob]

Robin from Iconoclast

She has a variety of melee and ranged attacks making her a good addition to the cast!

http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2011/03/freeware_game_pick_the_iconocl.html

Also, what's the status of this project? It hasn't been updated in a while! (I'd do something but I have no useful skills, unfortunately)

[Soulliard]

Robin has a lot of potential, for sure. As a huge Konjak fan, I'd love to see her in Indie Brawl. However, we really can't make a decision until the game is done. At the moment, it's not even certain that it will be completed. Even if it is, it will probably be quite different than it is now. I'm sure Robin will acquire more weapons and abilities, some of which may become more iconic than those she has now.

As for your second question, I just created a topic about it.

[irishladdie727]

I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why Steve? shouldn't be included.  I know it's no time to be piling on characters, but seriously, it's Minecraft...  IT'S MINECRAFT!



Here's a mockup of a sprite, I know he's hella tall right now, but that's because I was trying to give him the exact same proportions he has in Minecraft. It would be very very easy to shorten his legs, arms, and torso a few pixels in order to fit him in with the rest of the cast, but I just wanted wanted to post this sprite as an initial proof of concept. I used minimal shading in order to emphasize the "blocky" look and also to mark the places where he has joints so that the animators have an easier job.

He would be slow and have pitiful jumps, but make up for it with a wide range of unpredictable attacks and a difficult approach. Here's just a few of the numerous possible moves he could have:

A- Steve? whacks away at his opponent first with his fists then whips out his pickaxe for a devastating finisher that sends the opponent straight downward if in the air (like a "spike" in SSB)
>A- Steve? draws his sword and swats at his opponent for minimal knockback but a good amount of damage.  Good for starting combos.
vA- Steve? Throws a random block underneath him (could just be random texture, could have different properties), and leaps off of it just before it smashes into pieces, dealing damage and knockback to those nearby.  Used for recovery.
^A- Steve? lifts a TNT block above his head and can carry it around inactive but cannot attack. Pressing A will drop the TNT where he stands and start its countdown, which is about 5 seconds, giving Steve? a chance to run like hell. Pressing S will make Steve? throw the TNT and it will detonate on impact.  If Steve? is hit while holding the TNT, he'll drop it, it will explode, and both he and his attacker will be caught in the blast.

S- Bow and arrow.  Can be charged an released to increase firing distance but cannot be held down indefinitely or else it will just release automatically.
>S- Steve? places a random block in front of him, obstructing battle and mixing things up.  WILD CARD!  Blocks can be destroyed when hit repeatedly, but different block types can take different amounts of damage.  The strength of the block Steve? puts down depends on how much damage he's accumulated.  The more hurt he is, the better a chance he has of putting down something like obsidian or diamond as opposed to wood or dirt.
vS- Flint and Stone. Steve? lights a fire on the ground in front of him.  This should be exactly like Ness's PK fire.
^S- Lava Bucket.  A very slow attack for when an enemy is standing still right in front of you just asking for it. Steve? lifts a bucket of lava over his head and slowly pours it directly in front of him for massive continuous damage as long as the attack lasts on whoever is unfortunate enough to get caught underneath the bucket.  No knockback, but the damage ought to make up for it.

D-Steve? throws an egg at his opponent.  It doesn't do any damage but they have an egg on their face until they die.

Again, pretty much unlimited potential for movesets here, this is just my attempt at one.  Also, why haven't we been doing taunts? (The egg throw)

[Soulliard]

Problems with Steve:
-He's not much of a character. He has no personality and you don't even see him normally.
-His potential moves are generic. All of his attacks in Minecraft involve either swinging or shooting common weapons.
-Creating solid blocks causes problem with clipping.
-The most iconic part of Minecraft is the game world, which is better represented with a level than a character.

Problems with Taunts:
-It would require adding another key to the controls, which means more complexity and more keylocking.
-It requires an additional animation for each character, which is a ton of extra work.

[irishladdie727]

Problems with Steve:
-He's not much of a character. He has no personality and you don't even see him normally.
-His potential moves are generic. All of his attacks in Minecraft involve either swinging or shooting common weapons.
-Creating solid blocks causes problem with clipping.
-The most iconic part of Minecraft is the game world, which is better represented with a level than a character.

Problems with Taunts:
-It would require adding another key to the controls, which means more complexity and more keylocking.
-It requires an additional animation for each character, which is a ton of extra work.

-That's entirely your opinion.  We were seriously considering the Dwarf Fortress Dwarf for a while, who is a @. Steve?'s character is inherently tied to Minecraft's character: he's creative, industrious, violent towards animals and plantlife alike, and terrified of creepers.  He's everybody's favorite crazy hermit.  He's however you choose to play the game.  Plus you could easily say the same for Liero, who has no personality and is just a low-res palette swappable worm, and not even a specific one.  Spelunky, Xoda, Castle Crasher, Lyle, and Madotsuki are all silent protagonists with only the personality the player gives them beyond their intial character design.
-Again, very much an opinion.  I incorporated some unique stuff like Jumping off of blocks and pouring lava into there, and that's only one possible moveset.  We could have him riding around on pigs or reeling people in with a fishing rod.  The number of things you can do in Minecraft, seemingly limitless and increasing with every update, are the number of potential moves Steve? could have. Plus "generic weapons" shouldn't exclude him from inclusion.  It's how the moves work, not their physical appearance, that's important.  Almost all fighting games save for the Soul Series and Smash Bros. can be boiled down to a cast of mostly "guys who punch, kick, and occasionally hurl energy at each other."
-That's unfortunate since that would be a really cool move, I guess you guys came across that with Lyle, but again, any number of things could be his >S, including changing the egg throw to a highly spammable projectile with low damage and no knockback.  Like Fox's laser except an egg.
-No reason there can't be a stage and a character right? Do the other characters have stages?

Like I said, I've yet to hear a convincing argument. Minecraft is an enormous part of the Indie games scene lately and really ought to be represented by more than just a stage.

As for the Taunts, I don't know anything about the coding so I'm willing to concede that.  The animations themselves wouldn't be that difficult to create but I suppose there might be issues incorporating them into the game.

[Sir Raptor]

The Minecraft scenario is the polar opposite of the Touhou scenario; whereas one has a larger focus on the characters rather than the world, the other focuses entirely on the world. A great majority of first-person games focus on the world, to make up for the fact that the main character is largely invisible. For that reason, Touhou is represented in the series with a playable character and an assist, and Minecraft is more likely to be represented with a stage.

Although there could definitely be a Minecraft assist, but it'll most likely be a creeper.

[Soulliard]

-We were seriously considering the Dwarf Fortress Dwarf for a while, who is a @.Plus you could easily say the same for Liero, who has no personality and is just a low-res palette swappable worm, and not even a specific one.

Agreed. Understand that when this project began, there were far fewer iconic indie game characters, so the standards for inclusion weren't as high. But Dwarf has been removed from the roster, and Liero has plenty of unique weapons to justify his inclusion.

Spelunky, Xoda, Castle Crasher, Lyle, and Madotsuki are all silent protagonists with only the personality the player gives them beyond their intial character design.

Silent doesn't equal soulless. Those characters have tons of personality revealed in their animations, and their role in their game's plot.

We could have him riding around on pigs or reeling people in with a fishing rod.

It's not that it would be impossible to create a move list for Mr. Minecraft. It's just very difficult to create a move list that really reflects the character. Let's face it- Minecraft isn't remembered for the awesome combat maneuvers you can pull off. Most of the other characters in IB have iconic attacks and fighting styles that are incorporated into their move lists.

-No reason there can't be a stage and a character right?

No, but see below...

Like I said, I've yet to hear a convincing argument. Minecraft is an enormous part of the Indie games scene lately and really ought to be represented by more than just a stage.

I don't think you realize just how much work goes into making a single character. Since there are so many great characters to choose from, we need to consider the inclusions carefully. Including Mr. Minecraft means barring another character from inclusion.

Minecraft is getting a stage and a support character (the creeper), which gives it plenty of representation. Stages are a huge part of the game, so it isn't getting passed over.

As for the Taunts, I don't know anything about the coding so I'm willing to concede that.  The animations themselves wouldn't be that difficult to create but I suppose there might be issues incorporating them into the game.

Creating a moderately long animation for 15 characters is a lot of work. It could easily end up taking over 40 hours to make them all, and frankly, it doesn't add much to the game. The coding part is easy, but the animation would be very time-consuming.

[AMAZON]

imo a minecraft character could be extremely interesting if you were willing to put a lot of thought into it (incorporating combinations/mining in somehow) but i agree that the game would probably be better represented by a stage

[mokesmoe]

There's also the fact that we don't want to include characters from unfinished games, and since minecraft is getting new stuff all the time, that rule completely applies here.

Animation is the slowest part of Indie Brawl. Taunts would be some of the slowest animations to make. Since they aren't necessary, it's really just a huge waste of time.

[capn.lee]

i agree, steve? isn't very interesting. he's intentionally very generic.
Creepers are interesting and the big blocky world are interesting.

[irishladdie727]

I have been as they say, served.  I retract my request for Steve? to be a character. 

[Rooky]

I don't know how much of the Minecraft stage has been thought out, but an idea for it..
Having Steve? as a background character who's not touchable but slowly builds the stage up. So, a scrolling stage, basically, but it's built as it goes along, procedurally generated if anybody can code it. I don't know, just a thought.