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[johnki]

Alright, I'm curious. Have you guys ever come up with ideas, put them into being, and then realized they just don't work? Even though my game programming journey has just begun, I have.

Today, after having thought it would be an interesting idea for a while, I decided to make a game where the other player controls your guns.

Despite being an obviously rushed "I wonder if this would even work" type prototype, the issues are pretty clear. It's like designing a racing game where the goal is to come in last. You just have to press the fire button and then line your ship up with the shots, and bingo, you scored, and the other player can do nothing about it.

Oh, but it was worse before. Before my girlfriend pointed out the horrible design in making the score work so that you have to kill your opponent while controlling his guns, there was pretty much no reason to shoot at all. Why even begin playing if playing causes you to lose?

So then I decided to switch the scoring around. Now you get points for killing yourself. And now the clever title doesn't work so well.

It still doesn't work very well for the reasons mentioned above. The game pretty much says that coming in last is winning.

We thought up some ideas, like maybe in addition to controlling the other player's shots, you control a shield mechanism on their ship or something. Or maybe I could turn it into something more Geometry Wars-esque, except the shooting is constant. However, nothing really sounded solid enough to attempt to implement.

In the end, an interesting idea that just doesn't seem to want to work.

How about you guys?

[HernanZh]

Can't say I've ever came up with an idea that wouldn't work

You know, I think your thinking process is backwards, because I don't think your original game idea is a dead end. The first thing you need to come up with is a way to 'win' the game, and not something that 'prevents losing'.

Like your girlfriend pointed out: your game didn't work because shooting is only going to make you lose, so why pull the trigger in the first place? In a racing analogy: if 2 cars race to drive off a cliff, why would you push the gas pedal in the first place? You don't race to kill yourself.

You can still turn it into a game, by defining the winning terms better. "The car that drives closest to the edge without falling off the cliff is the winner" for example. In the same way your original idea shouldn't be about "avoiding bullets so you don't lose", but instead: "dodge bullets to score points". This way you ARE motivated to shoot, so you can score points, and the other player is motivated to move around so you get hit.

[1982]

The idea is much more important than execution and functionality.

[johnki]

You can still turn it into a game, by defining the winning terms better. "The car that drives closest to the edge without falling off the cliff is the winner" for example. In the same way your original idea shouldn't be about "avoiding bullets so you don't lose", but instead: "dodge bullets to score points". This way you ARE motivated to shoot, so you can score points, and the other player is motivated to move around so you get hit.

Wow, that's really clever. I should turn this thread into "Ideas that didn't work for you, let someone else try and fix em" heh.

No, but really, I think I'm actually going to try that one.

[Vino]

No idea works when you first try it. You have to iterate and tweak it until it does. Change the victory condition, change the movement, or the way guns fire, or something.

In your case you have a clear lack of risk or tradeoff. Those two elements can do wonders to improve a design. Try thinking of a way to introduce a risk or tradeoff that the player must take, perhaps it may help.

[J-Snake]

The idea is much more important than execution and functionality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKy0-pbGG3w&feature=player_embedded

edit: Try to tell this Kojima.

[TaintedFork]

I also think this idea would be better if bullets could bounce off the walls.

After travelling a certain time (distance?) the bullets would fade out and dissipate.

But if it was more like air-hockey, where the edges are bouncy, I think it would also be more fun/interesting.

[Herr Schnurrbart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKy0-pbGG3w&feature=player_embedded

edit: Try to tell this Kojima.

Oh god, this. Handing over that project to Platinum was a CRIME. We will never play Rising in it's original, most beautiful form. 

[rivon]

MGS:R was awesome... MGR is the shittiest game evar... I want MGS, not Bayonetta/DMC/GoW crap.

[gunswordfist]

The idea is much more important than execution and functionality.

[DavidCaruso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKy0-pbGG3w&feature=player_embedded

edit: Try to tell this Kojima.

Oh god, this. Handing over that project to Platinum was a CRIME. We will never play Rising in it's original, most beautiful form. 

You would have never played it anyway because all that footage was CGI and they had basically cancelled it by the time Platinum got there anyway lol.

[gunswordfist]

WhyTF are people complaining?!!!!!!! PlatinumGames is the absolute best Japanese dev of today and teaming up with Kojima and co., another favorite of mines, makes it that much better. Jesus christ...

[Gimym TILBERT]

The absolut worst when it comes to do a kojima style game
It's like team ninja making a metroid game

[Xion]

The idea is much more important than execution and functionality.

what? since when has this ever been true (of anything)?

[gunswordfist]

The absolut worst when it comes to do a kojima style game
It's like team ninja making a metroid game

It was never a full stealth game. People are acting like this is a 90s MGS but the series has lost its mind a long time ago.