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[PompiPompi]

You didn't seem to mind playing spelunky that much

Right, exceptions to every rule and so forth. But even Spelunky could have been a lot better had it been programmed for real. It was plagued by performance issues and tearing.

Just do the game and don't write anywhere that it's done in RPGMaker... Problem solved

It's not the name of the engine, it's the problems associated with it.

Now, you might have been sarcastic instead. In which case you may safely ignore my remark.

¿You can explain why? I have been using and playing with RPG Maker like 11 years, and i never felt that. Ah, and RPG Maker are REAL games, this feels too snob.

The big three being, lack of: performance, responsiveness, and features. The fourth is that I'm a snob, but that one you already figured out.

Features is irrelevant, because he said it does everything he needs. He doesn't need features he didn't intend to add to the game in the first place.
Responsiveness, I wouldn't take your word for it, I want to see data. What is not responsive? You mean too much latency in input->process->output? How much latency are we talking about? You know that it's probably a lot less horrible than in multiplayer games? Eventhough multiplayer games have ways to cover it up.
Performance is only relevant if it's not good enough. You only need good enough performance, you don't need the best performance.
If the game runs at 60 FPS at your target machine you don't care how efficient the engine is.
That being said, I did notice some slowness playing a specific RPG maker in a specific machine a few years back. Not sure if it's still relevant for today.

[Core Xii]

Features is irrelevant, because he said it does everything he needs.

You misunderstand; I'm talking about my needs, not his. I don't care what he thinks his game needs, I have high expectations of what games are supposed to do (like save their data in my documents instead of program files, provide a high degree of controls customization, etc.). Most of the engines we're discussing here do no such thing.

You only need good enough performance, you don't need the best performance.
If the game runs at 60 FPS at your target machine you don't care how efficient the engine is.

Well, I do. Maybe you don't, but I do.

[pgil]

You're a programmer.  Of course you care.  The average player doesn't, as long as the game works. Is an RPG Maker game really any less "efficient" than running a SNES game in an emulator?

[Core Xii]

You're a programmer.  Of course you care.  The average player doesn't, as long as the game works.

Right. But the question wasn't "Is it worth it to the average player?". Just giving my opinion.

Is an RPG Maker game really any less "efficient" than running a SNES game in an emulator?

No, and that reinforces my point. Emulation is pretty darn terrible.

[J-Snake]

@ CoreXii: I would like to know how you would solve the problem with tearing, what trade-offs would you choose?

[Christian Knudsen]

You're a programmer.  Of course you care.  The average player doesn't, as long as the game works.

Right. But the question wasn't "Is it worth it to the average player?". Just giving my opinion.

It actually pretty much was:

My problem is that is it worth the time in public eye because the game engine would be RPG Maker XP?

[Core Xii]

@ CoreXii: I would like to know how you would solve the problem with tearing, what trade-offs would you choose?

Vertical sync with triple buffering.

[1982]

Oh sure thing, coders are the last target audience in any form of art.

[Reives]

I think it's actually pretty understandable that some people (especially devs) take a game less seriously because it wasn't coded from scratch -- I'm on the other side of the fence here personally (RM user), but it makes sense for people in the know to take a sense of enjoyment and appreciation from how something was crafted. It's like an architect enjoying the underlining structure of works from other architects; perfectly legit.

Although, it does kind of reminds me of the case with Cyanide & Happiness on DeviantArt, where many artists were ticked that "stick figures" were getting more views than the more artistically difficult things they were working on. In the end, I think there are just a lot more ways that something can be enjoyable than one (and more aspects of work with games than just coding); as long as everyone can accept that while not having it deny them of their own personal priorities, it's all good.

On that note, I'm pretty supportive of Core Xii's honest no-BS posts. Even with the technical reasons aside, it's okay to be a "snob" or whatnot as long as it's not closeted; it's a human feature and we all tend to do it with one thing or another. It's not like we can change how we feel about it that's already embedded, so to hide it and put on a fake smile would be even worse.


Anyways, on the technical side of things though, one major issue is the lack of support and portability to Mac & Linux (and since the engine's not open-source, you can't do much about it). Given the multi-platform direction we're headed, this will only become more of an issue as time goes on. Also, if you ever get the game on Steam or the like, there're tons of hair-pullers with integration since, again, there's no access to the source code of the engine.

[baconman]

Then you prototype your project in RPGMaker, and if it works, get a Lead Programmer for a remake. Ta-dah.

[eyeliner]

1982,

Do it.

[hopwep]

Check argss project, thought now its stopped, but its better to help the autor and make the full XP portable and opensource than port and remake anything each time.

[My Escape]

RPG Maker, as a tool, is great.  The only problems are stigma and distribution.

Even as a free product, it will be tough to encourage people to download your game.  So having wonderful artwork, non-standard RPG Maker features and an unusual setting or story would definitely help.  Perhaps focus a lot of time and energy on the first 5 minutes of the users experience to ensure it hooks and inspires.  

There is no doubt that if you make a good game, regardless of tools used, it has value.  It is just a shame that RPG Maker doesn’t export to HTML5 or mobile platforms (in my opinion).  

Good luck and we at My Escape would love to see what you come up with (we're RPG mad here).  

[Blademasterbobo]

go for it as long as you can make it look like it wasn't made in rpgmaker. and never mention rpgmaker anywhere. "rpgmaker? what's that?" then it'd be ok. otherwise, fuck no stay way from that shit are you crazy?

[Archibald]

I would approach it from another angle. If I were to make things on RPG Maker (or anything else) for 10 years and never finish anything solid I would feel frustrated. It is not a matter of it being worth it or not. Unless you finish ONE game on this RPG Maker of yours it will haunt you for years (I was in a similar situation so I know first hand). You simply have to do it, you have no choice