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1058938 Posts in 43037 Topics- by 34984 Members - Latest Member: Liens

October 30, 2014, 04:12:19 AM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreativeDesignLet's talk about Quick Time Events
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Author Topic: Let's talk about Quick Time Events  (Read 4131 times)
Tuba
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« on: January 28, 2012, 04:32:46 PM »

Well, from what I know, most indies hate them, and I don't think I've ever seen an indie game with QTE's. But the mainstream developers keep using them all the time.

I can remember 3 games that use them in interesting ways:
- Darksiders and No More Heroes, you use QTEs for the final blow on enemies, but if you miss, no problem, your finishing move just won't be as pretty.
- Heavy Rain, now don't get me wrong here, I finished this game recently (probably what made me think so much about QTEs) and I didn't like it. But I think it's pretty cool how the game reacts to missed QTEs: it just shows an alternative animation and the story goes on.

Pretty much every time the player is not required to perform a QTE to progress.

So, what I want to know: Do you think there's any way to make GOOD Quick Time Events? Any real excuse to use them?
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 05:14:36 PM »

resident evil 4. remember that was back when qtes werent common yet so they were unexpected and felt like a breath of fresh air at the time.

re4 doesn't use them as a cheap way to add some sort of fake bullshit "interaction" to what should be a cutscene like most newer games do either. instead qtes tie in with re4's core principle of unceasing tension. they subvert the (then) normal function of the cutscene in action games as a "respite" for players after a particularly intense fight and force them to stay on their toes at all times.

tl;dr: resident evil 4 doesn't give you a break, not even during cutscenes.
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JasonPickering
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 07:54:50 PM »

I think they can work depending on how they are done. in games like God of War you expect them and are ready for them. all though they have gone a bit overboard with them. but some games seem to think they need them so they will jsut throw in like two in the entire game. They will always show up when you least expect them too. most likely making you lose the first game.

Another question is do you mean Quick time events like interactive cutscenes. or games that used timed button presses as a mechanic? like some of the attacks in Paper Mario.
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poe
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 08:18:35 PM »

Dark Cloud had fun quick time events, you had ample time to see which button to press and it was more like a one lane guitar hero than OMG HIT THIS QUICK.
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Player Ʒ
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 08:28:26 PM »

resident evil 4. remember that was back when qtes werent common yet so they were unexpected and felt like a breath of fresh air at the time.

re4 doesn't use them as a cheap way to add some sort of fake bullshit "interaction" to what should be a cutscene like most newer games do either. instead qtes tie in with re4's core principle of unceasing tension. they subvert the (then) normal function of the cutscene in action games as a "respite" for players after a particularly intense fight and force them to stay on their toes at all times.

tl;dr: resident evil 4 doesn't give you a break, not even during cutscenes.

This. Shoulda seen my face when I first saw "WAGGLE THE REMOTE, QUICK!"
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 01:16:18 AM »

The problem with Resident Evil's cutscenes is that I played the PC port which didn't even display the PC keys for the QTEs but just the gamecube buttons.

Made it almost impossible.
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baconman
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 02:08:05 AM »

Bad way to implement QTE's:

Loop them forever until the player succeeds. >.<
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Tuba
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 04:12:42 AM »

I think they can work depending on how they are done. in games like God of War you expect them and are ready for them. all though they have gone a bit overboard with them. but some games seem to think they need them so they will jsut throw in like two in the entire game. They will always show up when you least expect them too. most likely making you lose the first game.

Another question is do you mean Quick time events like interactive cutscenes. or games that used timed button presses as a mechanic? like some of the attacks in Paper Mario.

I forgot about Paper Mario, it happened long before everyone was calling that QTE.
I don't think those could be considered QTEs, cause you know exactly when you're going to need to press the button and which button you'll need to press. It's more like Dance Dance Revolution than God of War.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 09:06:31 AM »

They suck and I hate them.
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 09:37:01 AM »

Quick Time Events can be very lazy.

It seems to always happen when the player is put in a very fantastic situation that the player has no precedence for.  Like in Resident Evil 4, compare the knife fight with Buff Mclarghuge to the actual fight you had with him later.  Which one looked cooler?  Which one played out better?  Probably the one that didn't involve you just bumrushing him and knifinf him six times.  QTEs seem to mostly come from the desire to grasp at a very cinematic feel that the imposed interactions of normal gameplay are unable to deliver. 

I liked the finishers on Bayonetta.  It felt frantic and exciting to have to mash a button for the sake of getting bonus halos.  Always got me hunched and and gripping my controller in some preposterous manner.  It's a nice way to finish things, climactic in more ways than one.
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 09:50:44 AM »

they subvert the (then) normal function of the cutscene in action games as a "respite" for players after a particularly intense fight and force them to stay on their toes at all times.

They work much the same way in Shenmue, the game we can thank for popularizing (and naming) QTEs. Why weren't the more compelling aspects of Shenmue inspirational?

In Shenmue 2, there's an interesting moment where you have to fail a QTE, contrary to your instincts.
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 12:05:54 PM »

because i havent played shenmue derp.

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QTEs seem to mostly come from the desire to grasp at a very cinematic feel that the imposed interactions of normal gameplay are unable to deliver.
yeah thats the thing. they're often used as a copout. qte almost never really feel "interactive" to me. they never convey the feeling of actually doing whatever it is they represent, especially not when theyre used in the middle of cutscenes. qte finishers are ok i guess but i can live without them.

i kinda like the the mashing buttons to open chests thing in god of war. it symbolizes the physical effort of lifting a heavy stone lid pretty well. heavy rain (for all its faults) has moments like that too. the qtes that force you to contort your hands in weird ways were a cool idea i thought.
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 01:05:32 PM »

because i havent played shenmue derp.

Nothing was directed at you. I was simply wondering why only the least interesting aspect of Shenmue turned out highly influential in the industry.
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Malice
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 04:53:39 PM »

Considering a QTE is literally a dexterity challenge it's pretty hard to justify them as constituting a meaningful choice in any game, ever.
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2012, 04:57:43 PM »

uhm heavy rain has branching paths triggered by failing or not reacting to qtes
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Malice
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2012, 05:03:55 PM »

Selecting which narrative track to follow isn't what I mean by meaningful. Whether you succeed or fail at a QTE, you did so based on dexterity or your desire to see some specific outcome, but not because of how you managed in-game resources, systems, mechanics, or anything else relating to actually altering a game state; there's no opportunity costs, no expenses, nothing. It's fundamentally boring. That's why Heavy Rain is a choose-your-own adventure novel more than it is an interesting game, which it certainly is not.
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unsilentwill
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2012, 05:14:33 PM »

They're a garbage attempt to keep movies in games. What happens is you see a cutscene and say "oh, i can't do anything anymore" so when someone swings an ax at you, unlike when you're playing the game, you don't think to dodge because it's a cutscene. That's a cruel trick.

The worst part is they throw out the idea of knowing what buttons are for in the game as an extension of character and turn you controller into this:



Which means they yell blue! at you instead of letting you interpret the actions on the screen as something you should dodge using the dodge button.

If you simply change the camera instead of going to a cut-scene and take the instructions off the screen, it would actually be gameplay and keep the drama. The term QTE wouldn't exist and everyone would be happier.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 08:54:53 PM by unsilentwill » Logged
C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2012, 05:19:14 PM »

yeah heavy rain is bad. it's bad as a choose your own adventure novel (shouldnt that be movie?)

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Selecting which narrative track to follow isn't what I mean by meaningful.
and how am i supposed to know that? it's a "meaningful choice" in the context of the game it exists in. it's not an interesting choice from a mechanical standpoint ofc.
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Malice
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 05:21:32 PM »

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Selecting which narrative track to follow isn't what I mean by meaningful.
and how am i supposed to know that? it's a "meaningful choice" in the context of the game it exists in. it's not an interesting choice from a mechanical standpoint ofc.
One, from the context that I was talking about it as a dexterity challenge and not a ~narrative fork~, and two, because this is the design forum, and the assumption should be that we are talking about game design, not narrative.
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Tuba
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2012, 05:56:26 PM »

The QTEs in Heavy Rain are a pretty bad way to choose a branching path, exactly because they are more of a dexterity and attention challenge. If the player misses a QTE and want to see what happens if he get it right, there's no guarantee that he'll be able to hit the button in time the next time, then he's stuck with the same path. A simple menu asking what you want would be better IMO.
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