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[Jackson31]

I'm wanting to try and make a game that I can test/play on my PS3, So I'm asking the big open question of "how?", since I know there will be a lot of mixed options about this it'll probably take some discussing in this thread, but what I want to know is what engine you guys think is the easiest to export to ps3 (I've heard rumors that UE3 does this quite well?) and what other development kits or processes might be involved in all this?

[Klaim]

The PS3 is a bit "alien" compared to PC so I guess it's not the easiest console to groke when you don't have the manual and hardware-debugger available. You can't have access to these without a license from the console manufacturer , meaning you have a company, game dev experience and money.

I'd say take a look at the homebrew console game developers communities, they should have some tools to allow you to at least build somethnig that run in an emulator, depending on the console.

What is your goal? Touchnig the console kind of hardware? Or just make games that run on your console?

[Jackson31]

My goal is really just to see if its possible, i find it very.exciting when developing for a device such as iphone goes well, it kets me kbow that i could potentialy have gamea published on the app store, i just wantes to get that same feeling about the psn or xbla, sorry for terrible.spelling, on.my phone

[Klaim]

The problem with current consoles is that if you really want to make code that works on a lot of them, you have to go with native code, C++ or C code most of the time, and you will have to make a lot of code different depending of the platform.

However, without the constructor support, you shuold just check homebrew communities, see what tools are available. I know only the old consoles and the NDS that are easily hacked and have som available kits, but I guess you could find some for more recent consoles too, or work to provide them.

[Pirate Hearts]

PS3 used to have Linux support that allowed for homebrew development, but Sony removed it.

The only supported path for console development that I know of (short of being a licensed developer) is XNA on 360.

[Daid]

Coming from the Wii homebrew development, I can tell you that there is little of "engine" material available there. There are some libraries to help you along but you are mostly working from scratch or an old Quake engine. And it depends on what kind of game you want to make how hard that will be.

Advantage is that the wii is right "open", in a sense that the security is broken on many levels. A single hack is needed to install the homebrew channel and then you're ready to go. Hardware wise it's the same as a gamecube, so lots of documentation was already done when people homebrewed that one.

It will take a lot more effort then building something for the PC. And you'll get a lot less users, because most "homebrew" users are in it for the piracy or emulation. (You can get the occasional nutcase that totally loves your game and stalks you everywhere)

[Polly]

PS3 used to have Linux support that allowed for homebrew development, but Sony removed it.

Unless you have a classic PS3 with firmware prior to version 3.21. More information is available on the official site.

[Jackson31]

Ok, so without the man power to adapt the UE3 source code (which I also don't have) into a new engine that would run on ps3 or xbox, it sounds like a writing my game in XNA really is the only way to go until I'm a billionaire who can afford console dev kits and whatnot, cool.

It might be worth me giving up the idea of working in XNA though, and instead focus on making a killer PC game in unreal, which (if it made loads of money) could be ported to consoles later, right? or not?

[EdgeOfProphecy]

Ok, so without the man power to adapt the UE3 source code (which I also don't have) into a new engine that would run on ps3 or xbox, it sounds like a writing my game in XNA really is the only way to go until I'm a billionaire who can afford console dev kits and whatnot, cool.

It might be worth me giving up the idea of working in XNA though, and instead focus on making a killer PC game in unreal, which (if it made loads of money) could be ported to consoles later, right? or not?

The full Unreal engine costs money to use (a pretty healthy sum), too.  You can use the UDK for free, which is quite powerful, and only pay royalties if you publish.  Something like that.  I don't know how something made with the UDK would run on a console, or if it would.  There are full versions of the Unreal Engine available for console, but once again, you need a license for it (and a dev kit console).

Something you write will likely only be able to be ported to consoles if you designed it to be ported from the get go.  I've heard that the general strategy is to design and code with the most cantankerous, restrictive platform in mind.  Particularly if you want to do anything taxing for a system, you'll have to have pretty deep knowledge of how it works.  I would not bank on anything you write with a significant degree of complexity being able to port unless you already have experience with the platform you'd be porting to.  PC's and the various consoles do not operate the same way, and have very different hardware constraints.

Is there a reason you're interested in the PS3 specifically?  Console development is hard for indies, which is why most tend to stick to PC/Smart Phone.  There's typically more overhead, and the technology and tools you need are not as accessible or cheap.  XNA's the exception, you can get the indie license for $100 I think.

[Jackson31]

I only really mentioned PS3 since i don't own an xbox anymore, and the whole reason I wanted to try developing a quick game for console was just so that, as you say, in future projects i can build with console porting in mind from the get go, or at least i would have a slightly better idea of what to expect once I get to that point.

So I think I might try make something quick in XNA for now, and I'll develop future PC titles in UDK, which, if they sold well enough on Steam, I guess could be ported to consoles by going from UDK to a console version of UE3

[EdgeOfProphecy]

Honestly, I would just worry about picking a tool that's easy to use and make games with that.

You're only going to need to port to consoles if you have a really successful game that merits a console port.  That is a very good problem to have.

If you already have a successful game, you already have money or can more readily secure funding.  Then you can hire an engineer to help you port the game, which will probably be cheaper than trying to port it yourself.

The most important thing is to make games, particularly good games that sell.  Focus on that first, and don't think too much about porting just yet.

[randomnine]

If you want console development experience, don't bother with XNA. The main issues in serious console development are console-specific APIs, console-specific hardware quirks, inadequate tools, hard memory limits and TCRs. An XNA game uses XNA APIs, probably won't push the hardware very much, has different tools to normal console games development, requires different memory management techniques (since it's in a garbage collected language) and isn't subject to TCRs... so while it's nice in principle, it's not really the same thing.

Similar issues with PS3 linux games... I don't think you even have access to hardware accelerated graphics there.

All you really need to do to support porting a game to consoles (besides working in C++) is, firstly, be careful about memory usage; and secondly structure your game so it passes, or can easily be adjusted to pass, TCRs. As far as TCRs are concerned, you need to be an approved developer even to find out what they are. You'll just have to try and enjoy the surprise when you get there.

If you have a few decent games out, you could contact Sony's Pub Fund - they're generally on the lookout for cool stuff for PSN and Vita. If approved they'll give you access to devkits and the cross-platform PhyreEngine. A PS3 devkit these days is $2,000, so not crazy money. I think Vita devkits are around the same. I know that's more than you'll want to invest, but it's not a huge barrier if you get to the point of making games for a living.

The Unreal Engine supports PC, Mac, 360, PS3, Vita, and these days Android and iOS. If you've made a game on Unreal and you get a console devkit and want to port it later, it'll be about as easy as it would be with any other engine. The main thing is support scaling down to the capabilities of console hardware, most importantly RAM. Unreal 3 is free for non-commercial use and you can get a commercial license currently for "$99 USD, and 25% of all income above $50,000 USD".

If you just want to see your code running on a console for fun times though, XNA or PS3 linux is your cheapest bet. They just won't teach you much that's useful for porting a game to consoles later.

But... you know, porting successful indie PC games to consoles isn't something that really happens. It's a huge amount of hassle and the platform holders aren't really interested in indie games that have already come out. Consider that even Minecraft isn't available on a console yet (though it's planned to come out soon) and you start to get an idea of the barriers in the way. The two most likely paths to console development are either joining a console games development studio or establishing yourself as a competent indie developer and pitching a *new* project to a console manufacturer which will be made primarily for that console.