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[Hangedman]

I'm not saying that it's bad, it's where I got my start.
I actually have a soft spot for it, especially the old ones where hacking the engine was the only way to get any attention

But it's usually recognizable.

[Paul Eres]

you were saying earlier that if someone doesn't want to completely master something or be the best at it and know everything about it, then they shouldn't do it at all

I've said nothing of the sort.

100% you did

Imagine if a person made a life long habit of riding their bike, but used stabilizers all the time... people would start to wonder why, and rightfully so.

You may say to yourself that you don't have any real need to learn to ride without stabilizers, but do you not feel it would be nice to learn how? For the sake of personal achievement? As a rite of passage? For curiosity? For sake of trying out new things?

you are saying there that if someone doesn't fully master something, and just does something part-way (to a training wheels stage), people would wonder about a person, rightfully, and that they are just fooling themselves (just saying to themselves, lying to themselves) if they felt they don't have a need to fully master it

[Jasmine]

100% you did

You are wrong.

I've already explained the "wondering why" bit. I'm not going over it again.

[nayon]

Guys, can we stop arguing about personal values regarding self-challenge? That's not the issue here.

[Paul Eres]

You are wrong.

I've already explained the "wondering why" bit. I'm not going over it again.

yes, but you didn't explain the part where you said that someone would be lying to themselves if they felt they only need to learn some of something and not all of something

[Jasmine]

you said that someone would be lying to themselves if they felt they only need to learn some of something and not all of something

I've never said such a thing. Please stop making false inferences and then claiming that is what I have said.

The first post I made here is pretty much all I wanted to say. I have no interest in debating minutia.

[Zecks]

guys

guys i don't think riding a bike works as a metaphor for this

[nayon]

guys

guys i don't think riding a bike works as a metaphor for this

I don't think the whole argument pertains to the original purpose of the thread

[brettchalupa]

With my friends and other developers, we have talked about about whether or not making games in Game Maker is as "legit" as making games using any other tool.

A lot of people seemed to disrespect the use of Game Maker, as if it's not really making games. This mostly came from programmers that I worked with, took classes with, etc. It always seemed like people talked about Game Maker with a condescending tone. I'm not entirely sure why, as I have only tried out Game Maker briefly (I've never made an actual game in it). It seemed like people felt that those who used Game Maker were cheating the process, that they didn't have to write nearly as much code or work as hard to get the game working and playable.

While I can't say if it is less work or more work, I can say  that what matters is making something that is fun to play. I tried to explain that what's important is that games are being made, and that in itself is really awesome.

I know from my experience, I had no idea that Super Crate Box and Spelunky were made in Game Maker when I first played them. Finding out they were made in Game Maker didn't degrade the quality or make me think less of those games. It really just showed to me that fun games can be made in Game Maker. That's what matters to me.

I think Game Maker is a great tool for designers and programmers and people getting introduced to making games. As tools become more accessible and easy to use, it makes sense that some people may look down on them. I know that people have made comments on my projects that I used FlashPunk or Flixel for, telling me that it's taking the easy way out. I think the lesson here is to work smarter, not harder. Games made with Game Maker are definitely legit in my mind, and as with anything, there are limitations and problems with it.

[Paul Eres]

I've never said such a thing. Please stop making false inferences and then claiming that is what I have said.

says the person who said:

But if those preferences are motivated by the finiteness of life, that would sound like a need to accumulate achievements, rather than self-actualization. Also perhaps what Erikson described as a search for ego integrity?

[Derek]

A lot of people seemed to disrespect the use of Game Maker, as if it's not really making games. This mostly came from programmers that I worked with, took classes with, etc.

If they disrespected Game Maker because it's "cheating", then I'm sorry, they are lousy programmers.

If they disrespected it because of its limitations, that's understandable - it has a lot of them.

Game Maker could be incredible, but the people in charge of its development seem like they are more interested in making a quick buck off of its least experienced users.

[Hima]

Game Maker could be incredible, but the people in charge of its development seem like they are more interested in making a quick buck off of its least experienced users.

This is how I see it too. I wonder what happened to the professor who started Game Maker. *sigh*

[brettchalupa]

Game Maker could be incredible, but the people in charge of its development seem like they are more interested in making a quick buck off of its least experienced users.

Have you used the latest Game Maker with HTML5 capabilities? I'm curious as to if it's a quick cash-in (where it runs terribly) or if it's a viable option for putting something out with HTML5.

I'm not totally aware of the limitations that exist with Game Maker, so it's hard for me to relate to what YoYo does right and wrong with it.

[nayon]

Game Maker could be incredible, but the people in charge of its development seem like they are more interested in making a quick buck off of its least experienced users.

Have you used the latest Game Maker with HTML5 capabilities? I'm curious as to if it's a quick cash-in (where it runs terribly) or if it's a viable option for putting something out with HTML5.

I believe it's in beta right now, with limited capability.

[TeeGee]

I have it (got it as a gift from YoYoGames actually). It's okay. Has some nice features that the incoming GM Studio is going to have too. Like making the project a folder structure, where every object and every resource are separate files, instead of using a single .gmk for everything. It helps a lot with subversion and when cooperating with others on the game. Also makes it easy to transfer solutions from one game to another. As for the html5 exporter -- yeah, it works pretty well. I can't find a viable use for it yet myself, but it does seem to work.

GM Studio itself seams to be quite promising too. Except that it's based on the broken GM8.1 base. Which means no Mac development (you can export to Mac, but not work on it) and some general (pretty serious) issues that GM8.1 has. I talk about it briefly in the article I linked before the thread was Eresed.