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1026256 Posts in 41133 Topics- by 32738 Members - Latest Member: Yarif

July 24, 2014, 07:20:38 AM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralDoes Pokemon Suck Now?
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Author Topic: Does Pokemon Suck Now?  (Read 8749 times)
dustin
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« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2012, 10:34:34 AM »

I have played all the pokemon games (not the remakes).  Not catching all the pokemon or doing everything but just beating the game.  I think people go a bit crazy about pokemon designs.  I can't really see how 1 generation is worse then the others in design terms.  It seems like just nostalgia to me that people somehow think generation 1 and 2's monsters weren't ridiculous.  Each generation has some I like and some I don't.
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2012, 10:40:41 AM »

Ken Sugimori wasn't the only pokemon designer even on the 1st gen. He did the final artwork for the games (and he possibly still did on Black and White?), but there was at least Atsuko Nishida also doing designs, such as Pikachu.
one japanese guy drew rats on fire, water rats, wind rats, stone rats, and plant rats, while another japanese guy was chiefly in charge of drawing cyber rats, ghost rats, clock rats, rats that looked like keys, or door mats, or coffee cups and mouse rats. the "rat trilogy" is hailed for its fine art, complex mechanics, grand story, and innovative designs, whereas consensus has been reached amongst 35 year old pokemon fans about the pejoratively named "continuing rat adventures" series, which is derided for derivative designs by yet another japanese guy, such as a rat with a bull whip and a little hat, and a rat that is actually just a normal rat, not on fire or anything.
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DavidCaruso
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« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2012, 11:04:29 AM »

Strictly speaking within the main single player campaigns, I think it's actually gotten a little bit better. Battles seem a lot faster than they used to be, for example, and 2v2/3v3 is great (if way too underused.) But then there are still the issues of massive bloat within the total Pokemon monster set/moveset, the game making it way too simple (and also less boring than the alternative, which would involve hours of grinding) to steamroll through everything by just leveling 1 or 2 mons and having everyone else be Revive slaves, the entire IV/EV dice roll system, boring towns and areas, etc. Regarding designs, the originals weren't exactly anything special, half the evolutions were either "ok make it bigger" or "ok stick three of them together and call it a day"; I actually like how a lot of the ones in B/W looked. Either way, I think I'd enjoy the games more if they just put mandatory level caps, worked on more strategic battles (preferably more than 1v1 most of the time), had training Pokemon take far less time, and maybe gave it a more interesting scenario.

it should have been a 3D MMO like everyone knows they should.

Everyone says this, but imagine how this would actually work out in reality. Do you really want to be subjected to even more grinding, chat spam asking for items, endless tedious quests and busywork just inserted to keep you playing, useless cruft by the bucketload, probably an extremely fake and copypasted world, etc.? No thanks, I'd rather have an HD Stadium 3 with proper console online.
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Painting
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« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2012, 12:22:19 PM »

I grew up with Ruby/Sapphire, so I love them. I never got anywhere past that. Eventually I bought Pokemon Black, but I wasn't able to get into it; it just seemed so bloated and the designs so uninteresting.

But that's just because I didn't grow up with them. Pokemon Ruby started off by hitting you with raccoons, little wolves, and weird bugs. Pokemon Black started off with, uh, I can't really remember, I think some dumb cat and a puppy. They're both yanked wholesale, without alteration, from real-world animals, but the difference is I was little when I was fighting the former group.

Anyway, Pokemon does suck now, but just to us. When we're at the seventh generation of remakes and random scribbles turned into monsters, the kids who grew up on Black/White probably won't be very impressed.

it should have been a 3D MMO like everyone knows they should.

Please no.
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« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2012, 12:23:27 PM »

steamroll through everything by just leveling 1 or 2 mons and having everyone else be Revive slaves..
I know exactly what you mean. Tongue That's how I always played Ruby. 1 (insert pokemon here) and 5 zigzagoons, or 4 zigzagoons and a flying pokemon. They'd keep picking up rare candies that I used to make my first pokemon even more overpowered, so there was no need to level up anything else.

They've actually tried to mitigate this in later generations. Consider the following changes:
-From Emerald and onwards, the chance of picking up a Rare Candy is relative to the Pokemon's level. This means abusing Rare Candy is more difficult in newer games, since you also have to level up your Pickup Pokemon to 41+ to have a decent chance of finding them.
-In Black & White, the experience formula was changed to be affected by how high the level of the Pokemon is relative to the enemy, so a lower-leveled Pokemon gained more experience by fighting a high-level foe and the other way around.

I think it's pretty clear that we're moving in the direction of needing to use more Pokemon in battle. Maybe they're still not successful in preventing the "steamrolling" strategy, but you can't say that they aren't trying.
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« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2012, 01:06:15 PM »

Yeah, I do really hate MMOs. But also I'm sick of turn-based, one against the world games in the exact same 2d art style.

Screw stats, guys.
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« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2012, 02:12:50 PM »

So in your Pokemon MMO you don't want it to have a Pokemon art style, a Pokemon plot, or a turn-based or stat-based battle system.

What do you want it to maintain from the games? A stylish accent over an e?
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« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2012, 02:36:39 PM »

As a few have said, I don't think its gotten any worse, I'm just less tolerant of it now. I picked up White and I just stopped playing after 5 or so gyms. Pokemon hasn't really changed much at its core, and the idea of grinding Pokemon to level 99 seems insane now. I probably would have never bought it if not for my friend having it too, even though we only played together once. There are plenty more games out there that are more deserving of my time, and even with nothing else to play, I doubt I would ever pick it up again.
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The Monster King
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« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2012, 02:55:43 PM »

too much grind, still not enough work on balance. too much random element.

playing the game is also boring after a few generations. its the same thing every time except with different pokémon, except not at all because they feel obligated to put in the same archetypes every time.

a rodent! a bird! both normal and normal flying YAWN

fire/fighting, water/random, or grass?Huh? WHAT WILL YOU CHOOSE THIS TIME (THE CHOICES ARE THE SAME EVERY TIME)

there were a few cool additions in B/W and everyone that complains that only first gen are good are hipsters. There's some shit in every pokémon generation and there's some pretty cool ones too. why dont you fucking tattoo jynx on your ass

but yeah, 5% crits and moves that can miss isn't actually fun. pokémon is in many ways outdated.
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SirNiko
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« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2012, 04:32:58 PM »

Everything Monster King said plus,

The addition of Steel and Dark and the Special Defense stat in Gold/Silver was good balancing, as was the stealth reduction of maximum EVs when we went from Gold/Silver to Ruby/Emerald. Pokemon has made efforts to introduce new attacks and new balance.

I think if Black and White's pokemon were the first generation and Red and Blue where this generation, pokemon would still be popular. The problem with pokemon has been and will continue to be its refusal to eliminate randomness and opacity that make it uninteresting to anyone other than children.

I have always felt the next logical evolution for pokemon is to make a game where you get points and get to build your pokemon by buying stats and skills. Make the "Campaign" mode where you collect new techniques and skills so you gradually get to be stronger, and make the battles a little more difficult. Leveling up pokemon is tedious and passe, so now you can emphasize the combat system and let players tear into that instead.

The downside is that would take a lot more effort to make, since balance will become critical to the final product.
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« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2012, 04:35:41 PM »

The developers have actually said that their target audience are kids, and that they're expecting these kids to play only one installment of Pokemon. Each subsequent release is meant for the next generation of kids.

The point is, get over it. You're not supposed to care.
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SirNiko
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« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2012, 04:44:38 PM »

Then why do they allow you to port your pokemon from one game to the next, and force you to trade with old versions to fill the pokedex?
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Alvin Row
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« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2012, 05:13:50 PM »

I dunno. I didn't even know that was possible. You're gonna have to ask the devs on that one. I just remember hearing on a podcast that they said their target audience is kids and expecting those kids to only play (tolerate?) one installment.
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« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2012, 05:26:57 PM »

I honestly like and dislike designs from all generations. Generation 1 had stuff like Voltorb that most definitely weren't "molded for weeks".

As for the games, I find them really enjoyable. The main games, that's it, not so much their spin-offs that aren't Mystery Dungeon games. They're simple, well executed turn based RPGs with tons of possible party combinations. Competitive play is also very fun.
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2012, 06:06:24 PM »

the original 151 had the highest number of memorable designs. that's what matters here. the later ones may or may not be more "original" but i don't think any of them (that i've seen) have the potential to become iconic videogame characters the way pikachu, bulbasaur, squirtle, etc. did. complaining about "animals" or w/e is missing the point by a million miles.
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