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1025879 Posts in 41113 Topics- by 32714 Members - Latest Member: glintycreative

July 23, 2014, 09:50:57 AM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreative (Moderator: John Sandoval)Your ideas for an ACTION-RPG (2D)
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J-Snake
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2012, 07:31:34 AM »

If you're going with a two-button setup, why not try a combo like:

L + YBXA = Enhancement Powers
R + YBXA = Offensive Powers (relative to facing direction)
It would be worth a consideration but I need to be economic to max out the use of the snes-like pad. Its resources are too limited. One disadvantage is that you still need to press 2 buttons simultaneously (instead of one) to perform a spell. At that moment two fingers are already reserved, potentially limiting you in simultaneous actions you can take.
But the bigger problem is that I already need R for locking the looking-direction (like in SoulBlazer) and L for evasion-mode(instead of walking you will make quick jumps).  

So instead I take the spell-change-characteristics into account and design the game- mechanics with respect to that. A spirit/spell-change doesn't happen immediately. It takes a certain time to transition to the chosen form (approx half of a second), regardless how fast your input is.
That is to prevent rewarding very quick fingers too much. I am actually someone who takes it into account. I am a fan of mind-gaming and alive fast-paced action but it shall not reward quick-fingers too much (because having quick fingers is a primitive skill). That is why I don't like the concept of convoluted super-moves in street fighter. They reward people with fast input skills too much. I know what I am talking about, I am one of them;)

I'm a little more partial to the Illusions of Gaia and Terranigma school of gameplay.
Yeah, Terranigma goes a bit more into direction I am heading but the visual style of Mana and Evermore is unmatched.
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baconman
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2012, 09:37:04 AM »

Oh yeah. Fucking "Geese Pretzels." Angry
They're actually not hard at all, just start with down, do two backward-sweeping 360s, and there you go. Somersault Justice commands have a simpler input like that, too.

And actually, speedier input is the whole reason HitBox is taking off, but that's a totally different discussion altogether! But I like how you're doing direction-locking, that's very Ikari Warriors of you (which I also liked for that kind of reason). There was also a directional offset for their attacks, which made positioning around terrain (and choosing what terrain to use for cover) important. And the quick-stepping is so Dark Souls, too. Smiley
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The platformer aspect of my project had a "move left, face right" and vice-versa command button, but I'm not too sure how that would translate well to gamepads... or how I was gonna do an equivalent for the adventuring counterpart (I was just gonna do a quick backstep command), but that sounds like a rather savvy adaptation. It's so much better!
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J-Snake
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2012, 10:21:00 AM »

Oh yeah. Fucking "Geese Pretzels." Angry
They're actually not hard at all, just start with down, do two backward-sweeping 360s, and there you go. Somersault Justice commands have a simpler input like that, too.
That is really not the point. The point is that there can always be someone with quicker fingers than you. It is about the magnitude of advantage he gains just by exploiting primitive skills. That is why fighter-pros use an arcade-stick instead of a joypad. Because arcade sticks allow faster input, especially exploiting convoluted moves to give them the edge. That is what I want to minimize. You should be competitive with a joypad aswell.

btw. Do you recommend to check out Dark Souls? Have you played it?
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 10:59:42 AM »

There is a need for art. END THREAD.
This. Seriously. 2D or 3D, I'm a sucker for games that the developers went through the trouble to make look pretty.

As for style, I'm a little more partial to the Illusions of Gaia and Terranigma school of gameplay than the Mana games or Zelda.

FYI, By art, I didn't mean VISUAL art, but artistic expression, as I think achievable through the creation of video games. I don't want people quoting me out of context. My opinions on aesthetic appeal are not included.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2012, 11:02:01 AM »

Here is the philosophy I follow:
Regarding single-player on the top level we can see two things: designed paths vs simulation/sand-box. In general I believe it makes a poorer game when you tend towards one of these extremes. If you only force designed paths your game will lack options/depth. If you only go for sand-box/simulation your game will lack balance and higher-level gameplay-structures. What I potentially want is simulation, but if I just throw in the rules and let them flow things are unlikely to shape up the way they should. That is why I need to take the designers hand into this system in places necessary. So that at certain bounds the game is directed by designers construction(which is still consistent with the rules) but within the bounds the game is running by simulation. But regardless of single- or multiplayer, the consistency of game-mechanics are conserved. Everything is evolving around it.
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baconman
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2012, 04:33:36 AM »

I play gamepad all the time, and at a level right around "pro > * > tournament" level. Hard to really put that well, but I'm almost consistently better with pads than sticks, save for XBox 360 (because most 360 d-pads suck for cardinal/diagonal orientation, and they have the same problems as thumbsticks - one degree past horizontal and you're airborne). I *can* play arcade sticks (save for Mortal Kombat) fairly well, but I get consistently better response with my gamepads. I can keyboard that shit better, too. (But then, my first gamedev project was based on the SSF2 engine. So take that with a grain of salt...)

As for Dark Souls, I cannot recommend that enough. It was my pick for GotY. The only user here I think that's more vocal about DkS is C.A. Sinclair. The controls take a little getting used to (especially if you're used to the whole thumb-button-to-attack scheme). It's a really incredible experience that doesn't really let up and always keeps you guessing and on your toes. Plus, the game is atmosphere incarnate, the combat system is both flexible and deep (you can have plenty of options, but not all of them at once), and even many of the AIs aren't stupid about it.

The Humanity (Body/Hollow form) system is about as technically complex as it gets, and the game doesn't quite do enough to clairify the advantages and disadvantages of it. But we'll cross that bridge if/when you get there.

Certainly check it out, and don't let it bully you out of pushing through a good portion of it. It can be tough as nails if the game's unfamiliar to you (or you've never played Demon's Souls or King's Field). One final word of warning - it will probably screw with your standards of both RPGs and Metroidvanias. And probably level design of 3D games on the whole (if Sonic Generations didn't already do that).

I mean that in the GOOD way.

Oh, and if you're uncertain about buying it, Northernlion is doing a through playthrough on YouTube. IF you decide you want to get/play this game, immediately stop watching the playthrough, and do it. That element of surprise/exploration is key to it's full enjoyment, and the less you know going in, the more you'll love it.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2012, 11:00:19 AM »

I will check it out. Looks solid, at least.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2012, 07:24:18 PM »

Not sure about Dark Souls, I already watched the part 4 and don't want to spoil it much more. But the action is looking pretty poor so far, just one or two different techniques applied all over again. It doesn't look challenging, it just looks tedious at times. Is it going about to change or will you be able to play like this all the time?

In case you have played Cursed Crusade. How does the combat compare to it?
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Independent game developer with an elaborate focus on interesting gameplay, rewarding depth of play and technical quality.

Super Metroid Tournament: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=38039.0

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baconman
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2012, 08:03:35 AM »

Haven't played Cursed Crusade, unfortunately.

The combat *is* deliberately slow-paced and tactical, kinda how Soul Blade/Calibur is much more methodically paced than Tekken. In fact, a "first person Soul Calibur" is probably the best description of how the combat in the game is, it's not very twitch-heavy at all. If you've seen any of the parts where the player takes it hit, it really sinks in - your character is rather fragile, and it doesn't take many screwups to send you packing. This, combined with some devious level design (hence the spoilage), makes for a tense, exciting atmosphere in spite of it's slower pacing.

Everybody develops a certain personal style to their gameplay - some people I've seen snipe enemies from afar by investing souls in lot of arrows, some like sneaking around and backstabbing adversaries, and some take them head-on. This just happens to be coming from somebody who's experienced a lot of the game already, so they know what they're doing and what's coming.

If you have a friend that has the game, you should still check it out firsthand. And if you have a PS3, the very-similar-in-nature Demon's Souls should be available for $20 or less now. It's online functionality is still intact, as well; and it actually does seem a little quicker-paced.
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