Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1411430 Posts in 69363 Topics- by 58416 Members - Latest Member: JamesAGreen

April 19, 2024, 10:18:56 PM

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesDoomRL 0.9.9.6
Pages: [1] 2 3
Print
Author Topic: DoomRL 0.9.9.6  (Read 6089 times)
raigan
Level 5
*****


View Profile
« on: February 29, 2012, 03:10:19 PM »

It's finally here!
http://doom.chaosforge.org/




Sadly... I think I sort of prefer the ascii, not aesthetically but UI-wise I think the close-up view is a problem Sad
Logged
s0
o
Level 10
*****


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 03:15:56 PM »

so wait... you can't play the game in ascii mode?
Logged
deathtotheweird
Guest
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 03:38:47 PM »

sure you can, there's a .bat file for launching in ascii mode. or you can edit the config.lua

I'll play the graphics version for awhile and see if I can get used to it, I usually prefer graphical roguelikes but I've played doomrl so much it's kinda funny seeing sprites.
Logged
iffi
Guest
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 03:39:15 PM »

All of a sudden the download size increased twenty-fold, thanks to the MP3 soundtrack. o_O
At least there's a MIDI version still available.

@C.A. Sinclair: You can still play the game in ASCII mode by running doomrl_console.bat. Edit: allen beat me to it.

The graphical version looks pretty nice (Derek Yu's tiles don't fail to impress), but I think I'll still be playing the ASCII version so I can actually see the whole level at once. Mouse support is nice but it's a little clumsy at the moment since the camera view is shifting all the time.
Logged
Dragonmaw
Guest
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 03:40:18 PM »

I think certain Rogue-likes - Brogue, DoomRL, and Dwarf Fortress being the major ones - benefit from tilesets.
Logged
s0
o
Level 10
*****


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 03:47:04 PM »

dwarf fortress sure as hell doesnt benefit from tilesets. i tried the most popular one once and it looked like someone had vomited pixels all over my screen.

also brogue doesnt even have tilesets what are you talking about
Logged
Theophilus
Guest
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 03:47:33 PM »

now i can play it without having to look up what everything is
Logged
Kornel Kisielewicz
The Black Knight
Level 1
*

Madman for hire


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 03:57:35 PM »

Sadly... I think I sort of prefer the ascii, not aesthetically but UI-wise I think the close-up view is a problem Sad

No worries. The UI is currently running through a fake console. A dedicated UI is the next planned step. Also, the ability to freely scroll the size is also planned.
Logged

At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (@epyoncf)
ChaosForge -- DoomRL and AliensRL
Jupiter Hell -- DoomRL spiritual successor!
Dragonmaw
Guest
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 03:59:20 PM »

dwarf fortress sure as hell doesnt benefit from tilesets. i tried the most popular one once and it looked like someone had vomited pixels all over my screen.

also brogue doesnt even have tilesets what are you talking about

I didn't say it did, I said (or implied, rather) I think it would benefit from one.

And Dwarf Fortress is unreadable without a tileset 8(
Logged
s0
o
Level 10
*****


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 04:01:54 PM »

why? the ascii graphics look super pretty with lighting effects and what not

and df is unreadable WITH a tileset (this is a fact)
Logged
Dragonmaw
Guest
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 04:03:17 PM »

Just the general feel of the game, I suppose. I feel like a good tileset would definitely make it even better. As is, it's great.

And you are wrong. So wrong.
Logged
s0
o
Level 10
*****


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2012, 04:14:07 PM »

NO U  >B]
Logged
raigan
Level 5
*****


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2012, 04:20:58 PM »

Sadly... I think I sort of prefer the ascii, not aesthetically but UI-wise I think the close-up view is a problem Sad

No worries. The UI is currently running through a fake console. A dedicated UI is the next planned step. Also, the ability to freely scroll the size is also planned.

I should say, DoomRL is probably the game I've spent the most time playing in my life -- Doom being probably #2. Hundreds of hours! So thanks Smiley

Wait, hold on a second!! What happened the the awesome "blood-drip" screen wipes?! It just instantly transitions to the next level now, with no awesome effect Sad

I think the game looks *amazing* using ProggyTinyTTSZ.ttf at 20 size (getting ttf fonts in console under Windows is possible, you just need to edit the registry a bit). It's a nice square-ish font that's chunky and pixel-y and easy to read.

I was really looking forward to the graphics, however in hindsight I guess this is maybe never going to be as good in terms of UI (fast readability, all information conveyed clearly) as ASCII.

Zooming out to the point where the whole level is on-screen will probably make the graphics much less readable (currently it's already quite easy to miss e.g a pistol laying on a corpse). Perhaps outlining the sprites in a bright colour -- maybe the colour used in ASCII mode? -- might help, but I think that fundamentally the game was designed with ASCII mode and thus it works best that way. Similarly with keyboard vs. mouse, it's much easier to play quickly and precisely with keyboard, mouse seems very sloppy and tedious in comparison.

Also, it has to be said -- DoomRL has the best ASCII graphics of any roguelike I've played. The use of colour and lighting, and the choice of characters, is really well done, striking a great balance between looks and functionality.

Finally -- sorry for being so critical! -- I don't know that the new high-quality wavs sound better than the old ones. I would imagine Doom's sounds were 11khz or whatever anyway (i.e low-rez) -- how did you even get high-quality versions of them?!

I moved the wavs in from 0.9.9.5 and IMO it makes a big difference to the authenticity/feel... it just doesn't sound right without the weird distorted/crusty bitrate Smiley


« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 04:31:30 PM by raigan » Logged
Kornel Kisielewicz
The Black Knight
Level 1
*

Madman for hire


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 04:45:53 PM »

I should say, DoomRL is probably the game I've spent the most time playing in my life -- Doom being probably #2. Hundreds of hours! So thanks Smiley
Thank you, it's an honor! Gentleman

I was really looking forward to the graphics, however in hindsight I guess this is maybe never going to be as good in terms of UI (fast readability, all information conveyed clearly) as ASCII.
An old friend of mine once said "If hackers were ever to use virtual reality... it would show a bunch of terminals floating around". I do understand the need of ASCII, and I'll always support ASCII (even for DoomRL 2, although in a ... different way). However, there are people born after us, that'd never look at a screen made of ASCII. I wanted to bring DoomRL to the wider audience, and I wanted it to be done in style, not just a overlay of images over where the characters should be.

That said, there's a couple usability features that will make it to the GFX version that will not be present in the console one -- ones that actually couldn't make it. I believe that the next version might change the balance of things a little usability wise.

Zooming out to the point where the whole level is on-screen will probably make the graphics much less readable (currently it's already quite easy to miss e.g a pistol laying on a corpse). Perhaps outlining the sprites in a bright colour -- maybe the colour used in ASCII mode? -- might help, but I think that fundamentally the game was designed with ASCII mode and thus it works best that way.
True, that's why it took so long to make it semi-userfriendly in the first place. However, this job isn't done yet, and things like highlighting are planned -- actually with an inspiration from Diablo's Alt key that highlighted all items on map with basic info.

Similarly with keyboard vs. mouse, it's much easier to play quickly and precisely with keyboard, mouse seems very sloppy and tedious in comparison.
When I initially implemented the mouse, so did I think -- but the more "hidden" possibilities I implemented, the more I saw potential. At the moment it still holds true, but there are a few things that are lot more easier -- easy look information, faster firing at non-default targets and faster movement to an explored position (due to the pathfinder).

Also, it has to be said -- DoomRL has the best ASCII graphics of any roguelike I've played. The use of colour and lighting, and the choice of characters, is really well done, striking a great balance between looks and functionality.
Again - thank you - much care has been taken here, not to make it look like an ununderstandable friut salad :>.

Finally -- sorry for being so critical! -- I don't know that the new high-quality wavs sound better than the old ones. I would imagine Doom's sounds were 11khz or whatever anyway (i.e low-rez) -- how did you even get high-quality versions of them?!
The HQ sounds are from a project by a person who tracked down the source samples that were used to create the original sounds, and recreated them based on the exact same sounds, but saving them in a higher quality. It's an interesting history actually - http://www.perkristian.net/game_doom-sfx.shtml

I moved the wavs in from 0.9.9.5 and IMO it makes a big difference to the authenticity/feel... it just doesn't sound right without the weird distorted/crusty bitrate Smiley
I agree - but that holds true only for people that played much of the original. And as someone noted, DoomRL has surprisingly much appeal to people who didn't play Doom at all. Personally I prefer the original files, but I noticed that people who didn't play Doom prefer the HQ ones. However, despite having access to a great soundcard-based midi-synthesizer Sonic Clang's recreations of the Doom tracks are too good to go back to midi...

tl;dr version -- I acknowledge and fully symphatize with the old-school DoomRL player base, but I want to expand the game (not loosing the old appeal) to people that do not understand the nostalgia factor.
Logged

At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (@epyoncf)
ChaosForge -- DoomRL and AliensRL
Jupiter Hell -- DoomRL spiritual successor!
Kornel Kisielewicz
The Black Knight
Level 1
*

Madman for hire


View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 04:47:50 PM »

Wait, hold on a second!! What happened the the awesome "blood-drip" screen wipes?! It just instantly transitions to the next level now, with no awesome effect Sad
One of the few features I didn't have time to reimplement after the complete rewrite of IO. However, they're on the dashboard to come back again, both in the old-style ASCII version, as well as with a faithful recreation of the original wipe in GFX mode.
Logged

At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (@epyoncf)
ChaosForge -- DoomRL and AliensRL
Jupiter Hell -- DoomRL spiritual successor!
raigan
Level 5
*****


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 04:50:38 PM »

Well, thanks for answering everything -- the tale of the HQ sfx is really interesting, I love finding out about the-making-of type details like that.

I guess I could go on and on... argh, I can't help myself: why, why is the tactical armor nerfed?! Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Grin
Logged
Waltorious
Level 0
***


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 04:53:09 PM »

Also, it has to be said -- DoomRL has the best ASCII graphics of any roguelike I've played. The use of colour and lighting, and the choice of characters, is really well done, striking a great balance between looks and functionality.

I would argue that Brogue has the best ASCII graphics I've seen in a roguelike.  The color, lighting, and animated backgrounds (like water) all look fantastic.  DoomRL has good ASCII too though.

As for the argument that Brogue needs a tileset, I would say not... the ASCII is really very good.  My favorite tileset has to be the one for Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, which not only looks good but greatly increases readability, with the player able to easily see what kind of weapons enemies are holding, whether they are confused or sleeping, etc.  Plus the minimap and graphical inventory are extremely useful.
Logged
Kornel Kisielewicz
The Black Knight
Level 1
*

Madman for hire


View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 05:08:15 PM »

I guess I could go on and on... argh, I can't help myself: why, why is the tactical armor nerfed?! Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Grin
Because it was too good, and too easy to obtain Tongue
Logged

At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (@epyoncf)
ChaosForge -- DoomRL and AliensRL
Jupiter Hell -- DoomRL spiritual successor!
raigan
Level 5
*****


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2012, 05:41:51 PM »

I would argue that Brogue has the best ASCII graphics I've seen in a roguelike.  The color, lighting, and animated backgrounds (like water) all look fantastic.  DoomRL has good ASCII too though.

I find Brogue too busy, there are many "scenery" elements (grass, etc.) which do nothing but are visually distracting. In DoomRL you can instantly "read" the level. Maybe I'm just more familiar with it though. Also, I'm not a big fan of the weird high-res font used in Brogue. Seriously, ProggyTinyTTSZ is *the* font for roguelikes.

Because it was too good, and too easy to obtain Tongue

Yeah, you're right I guess Sad
Logged
Blademasterbobo
Level 10
*****


dum


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2012, 08:48:41 PM »

Just the general feel of the game, I suppose. I feel like a good tileset would definitely make it even better. As is, it's great.

And you are wrong. So wrong.

how fucking stupid can you get

it's already the best looking roguelike, even among roguelikes with a tileset. there's no way a tileset would be able to look so awesome and colorful without becoming an unreadable mess.
Logged

Hand Point Left Hand Shake Left Hand Thumbs Down Left Hand Thumbs Up Left Bro Fist Left Hand Metal Left Toast Left Hand Fork Left Hand Money Left Hand Clap Hand Any Key Tiger Hand Joystick Hand Pencil Hand Money Right Hand Knife Right Toast Right Hand Metal Right Bro Fist Right Hand Thumbs Up Right Hand Thumbs Down Right Hand Shake Right Hand Point Right
Pages: [1] 2 3
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic