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[chriswearly]

Our genetical engineers are on the task!

Update 350

That age old rain world question - Where the hell will I appear if I go in this shortcut!? - has been given some clarity.



Some feedback, what do you guys think? Am I overdoing it? To me it feels a bit too modern with the color fading - I'm thinking about if it might be possible to have it look more old school somehow. Right now I'm lighting the entire path up, and doing a "wave" of slightly lighter dots on top of that so you can see the direction it's moving in. And also I'm having the destination arrow blink like crazy.

Note that in most scenarios you won't have any idea where to look for the destination arrow if you're playing the room for the first time, so I don't really think this can be communicated too clearly - however, it shouldn't be too visually distracting either.

Not sure if the saturation of the dots is for demonstration purpose or what you're intending. Either way, the dots colors I think should be toned down a tad, not as vibrant. Bright, but not in your face, if you know what I mean.
Ok, well here I MSPainted the top-left holes:
Just my two cents, really.

[Vadinci]

Right now the whole shortcut visualization feels very digital to me, opposed to the organic look of the rest of the game. Personally, I wouldn't mind if it was just the matching entrance and exit lighting up.

[christopf]

Are those hidden paths so important?
If you highlight them like this they get pretty important in a visual way and consequently the rest a little less important. To now i understood those paths as way to escape and as another interesting way to interact with the environment/to move. That would mean its cool to use them but its not the most important goal like going through a checkpoint in a racing game or picking up an special item.

I like the point that the holes in that linear arrangement might be enough. I agree on that and would say it matches the general "mood" better. But i'm only a sometimes reader of the devlog and maybe misunderstood some aspects here so sorry if i push dat consideration a stupid direction.

If there is a tutorial level or kind of it could be a solution to give a hint how to find those tunnels and how to use them.

[jamesprimate]

Maybe instead of the trace of the shortcut, you just keep the arrows. Because, I think, that's the only important info you would need at a glance, the exact path doesn't seem to important. Maybe when you get close to a shortcut entry, both the arrows just lerp to the same color

this is basically what was in the lingo build and it seemed to work fine. when you'd get close to a shortcut, the arrow and corresponding destination arrow would pulse subtly. i still think thats the way to go, not just for visual sensibilities but also because you'd sort of have to be looking around to figure out where you'd end up, kind of as a gameplay element. felt like "hunting" (and also, much more importantly, it didnt clutter up the view.)

but that said, no reason not to explore some possibilities!

maybe in a tutorial level if that kinda exist it would be good to point them out (if at all)

 

[Chromanoid]

How about just showing a subtle gradient flowing through the hidden path? In such a way that you have to wait a short moment to follow the gradient through the pipe. Maybe the slugcat purrs into the path and the echo of this noise shows the exit of the path. The player will have to memorize the paths if she wants to use them in a very hectic situation.

I don't think there should be highlights at all. I think it only adds funny tension if you don't know where you end up.

[JLJac]

I'm not sold on the idea of having only the blinking arrows, because it's not in all scenarios where it's only the player alone triggering those things. Multiplayer can have 4 slugcats running around, and then you can't just look for where it's blinking. But I totally agree with you on it being too saturated and bright, it does look a bit too much like neon lights. Maybe if the wave motion stays, but is toned down some? That would make it more about the blinking arrows, but there'd still be some motion to follow in order to get to the right arrow.

[Vadinci]

Maybe have the entrance and exit highlight in the color of the entity that walks past it? For example, when a green lizard walks up to a tunnel, the entrance and exit arrows slowly turn green, while for the player they would turn white. I assume in multiplayer slugcats will have different colors, so that might fix that issue.

I also think it would be nice if the arrows aren't (extremely) visible when you're not close to an entrance. That way you really have to be close to a tunnel in order to 'discover' it.

Just throwing in some thoughts 

[Christian]

Perhaps you can make the arrows/symbols more in line with the theme of the world? So like industrial signs or have the arrows more rusted and metallic and have a more muted glow (like embers from a factory)

Or have the route glow when you get near (same as above, muted, subtle) rather than arrows?

[ofx360]

Ok I like the trace of the shortcut, but now I don't think I'm liking the arrows. They're too bright? Maybe it's because I've been following this game for so long, but I don't think it's really hard to tell where the entrance to a shortcut is. Maybe you don't even need to bright arrows? Maybe the trace is a good enough indicator of where you'll end up if you take a particular shortcut. Though, a more subtle color than the bright white arrow would probably fix my issue with it.

[Scifa]

Not a fan of the arrow or lights, maybe have some other environment indicator for the player to show where the entrance / exit is. As the slug cat gets closer, maybe some blowing weeds, plants, wires or water drips...? I don't know I'm just rambling now.

I kinda preferred it when it wasn't obscured, you just saw the tunnel and the slug cat / lizard climbing through it. Also what happens if a lizard comes the other way while you're in the tunnel?

[JLJac]

Maybe have the entrance and exit highlight in the color of the entity that walks past it? For example, when a green lizard walks up to a tunnel, the entrance and exit arrows slowly turn green, while for the player they would turn white. I assume in multiplayer slugcats will have different colors, so that might fix that issue.

I also think it would be nice if the arrows aren't (extremely) visible when you're not close to an entrance. That way you really have to be close to a tunnel in order to 'discover' it.

Just throwing in some thoughts 

The color idea is really interesting! It's a ... weird one though, so I'll have to think about it.

Not a fan of the arrow or lights, maybe have some other environment indicator for the player to show where the entrance / exit is. As the slug cat gets closer, maybe some blowing weeds, plants, wires or water drips...? I don't know I'm just rambling now.

I kinda preferred it when it wasn't obscured, you just saw the tunnel and the slug cat / lizard climbing through it. Also what happens if a lizard comes the other way while you're in the tunnel?

What do you mean "when it wasn't obscured", do you mean the shortcuts or do you just mean like, an ordinary tunnel made from level geometry? Because those are different elements - one is not replacing the other I could try to do some kind of more "in-world" visual cue, but it'd be so incredibly forced that I'd prefer to just not try to go there. I don't know if you guys remember my post about how I think of in-world coherency from a few pages back? Basically the shortcuts are already a huge, weird exception from how the physical reality of rain world otherwise works, and as such I think it's way less awkward to embrace them as exceptions rather than try to shoe-horn them into some kind of more realistic representation.

For those of you who suggested more muted arrows, I tried toning down the color a bit and going back to the smaller size of the lingo build:



This is the size and color they were when I stood on the PAX floor and put my finger to them saying to people "THERE IT IS DO YOU SEE THE ARROW" and people were like "NO I DON'T SEE A THING", buuuut, I think that the expo floor was probably a pretty stressful context, where most people were playing the game for just a couple of minutes while standing up. Playing the game at home, sitting closer to the screen, people are probably able to pick up more subtle visual cues. What do you think, is it better?

Those of you that want to indicators at all - I totally get your point. Aesthetically they are a bit of clutter that we'd perhaps be happier without. But, the end product here is a game, not a bunch of gifs, so playability trumps aesthetics if all else equal. What the game looks like will appeal to you for a few minutes, but what it plays like is what's going to keep you for several hours, so I'll have to go with that. Then of course, if we can have both that's obviously the best alternative

[jamesprimate]

looking Quite Nice 

[muki]

for the longest time, slug cat/rain world reminded me of something. then today, I remembered

http://youtu.be/agOSYHgglLg?t=1m12s

not in the gameplay, obviously. but certain things

[Howard Day]

So, by way of suggestion - I like the idea of having the shortcuts visibly linked. I do think you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot a bit by requiring a full visible path. That limits more interesting across-screen warping, doesn't it?
So the two thoughts I had to make it a little more natural - Instead of arrows, or a physical line - have little bugs around the entrance to each end of the shortcut. As the player or critters get close, the bugs become agitated and perhaps glow in the color of the creature approaching.
The other thought, is that you might get away from the line of dots appearance - and more like a path occluded by pipes, gears, blocks and other rusted out machinery - you'd still have the blinking/crawling effect, but it would look more like the critters are crawling behind the guts of the world to take the shortcuts.
Maybe some combination of the two?
Anyhow, I again feel the need to state that I love everything about this. :D

[Zorg]

I like the full path highlighting but i totally dislike the arrows.

[Lucs]

Same here, I don't like the arrows.
I kind of like Howard's idea about bugs near the entrance, if not bugs maybe just plants or something else.

[tortoiseandcrow]

Yeah, gonna put my two cents in here and say that the full path lighting you originally did was nice, because it didn't require me to follow the fast moving wave with my eyes, but rather illuminated the entire circuit. From a playability standpoint, I can see that as being more useful. The arrows I don't think are particularly necessary, because the entrances are so uniform. Once you know what a shortcut entrance looks like, they're pretty easy to spot on the screen. It might be more of a matter of training that recognition early in the game than a UI problem. Though you might run into an issue if lizard burrows and shortcuts look the same.

What I find worrying is that they only display their path at all when the player approaches them. That means that I can't strategically run to a shortcut and know where I will pop out unless I am already very familiar with an area. This might be a design element you want to include purposefully, in that if you are in a new area shortcuts are always a little bit risky. But if that isn't what you want, then I'd suggest maybe having a subtle cue like the gray pulse operating pretty much all the time, and then having the more neon flash occur when I'm close, to make sure that I know exactly where it is I'm going.

[cainex1]

I like the full path highlighting but i totally dislike the arrows.

completely in agreement with the others but if something like what Howard suggests is not doable (love the ideas though) perhaps leave the directional color fade and put an option in the menu to remove the arrows
or yet another option, if you went new game + where there are fewer visual indicators and you have a limited field of view based on location and lighting
anyway these are just thoughts
You guys have said that in the end this a game and can be beat, but everything is just so fine and rich that I think an endless lifecycle mode would be a lot of fun and a great way to waste time for years to come, raise your pups and one day get too old to do much going out ands start playing as your favorite pup, hell you could even do the FFVII thing and make the various slugcats different based on color, like black could be hard to spot, blue might be really good underwater (you could even do the reverse rainworld like this, golden slugcat, stronger and tougher than any slugcat and with a metabolism higher than any lizard)
well mind or nevermind my musings, I love this project and check back all the time... theres always something cool and new

[DavidM]

Note that in most scenarios you won't have any idea where to look for the destination arrow if you're playing the room for the first time

I could try to do some kind of more "in-world" visual cue, but it'd be so incredibly forced that I'd prefer to just not try to go there. I don't know if you guys remember my post about how I think of in-world coherency from a few pages back? Basically the shortcuts are already a huge, weird exception from how the physical reality of rain world otherwise works, and as such I think it's way less awkward to embrace them as exceptions rather than try to shoe-horn them into some kind of more realistic representation.

Given the second quote this may not be what you're looking for but my first thought was to have the slugcat look at where the exit is upon approaching the entrance of a shortcut.  Or even point to it if a less subtle animation is required.  This tells the player the direction to look for the exit, and does so from exactly where their focus will be at the point of entering the shortcut.  It thereby aids with locating the exit arrow, or similar exit icon, which could then be the only other indicator on screen.

Of course there is the coherency issue of how it is that the slugcat knows where to look, and there might be pacing issues as well in terms of fitting the animation in prior to entering the shortcut.  Somewhat countering those issues, a more extensive animation could be given where time permits, say the slugcat tracing out the entire route of the shortcut by hand if idling by the entrance.  Maybe even doing so only on first use of that shortcut.  And one might argue if you're otherwise entering a previously unused shortcut in a panic then not knowing where it comes out is entirely legitimate.

Not ideal, but something along those lines may make things clearer.

[jamesprimate]

Yo! So I'm meeting up with Joar in Seoul for the next few days, meaning that probably nothing at all is going to get done while I force him to play tour guide, hehe. No that's not true of course, one of the main reasons I'm here is so he can teach me some of the more arcane ways of the level editor (tile, palette, lighting aspects, etc), plus we'll be planning out some more of the long-arc / business stuff. But in the interest of full disclosure, we'll mostly be eating samgyeopsal or kimbap while doing so 

Talk to you guys in a few days!