Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1076031 Posts in 44157 Topics- by 36124 Members - Latest Member: Fitzgerald

December 30, 2014, 03:14:23 AM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackDevLogsProject Rain World
Pages: 1 ... 36 37 [38] 39 40 ... 131
Print
Author Topic: Project Rain World  (Read 248797 times)
Loren Schmidt
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #740 on: October 29, 2013, 03:10:58 PM »

It's always good to see people doing neat experiments with procedural animation. The lizards are particularly good- there's a lot of great subtlety to their movements. I particularly like the way they turn around.

I've been messing with this sort of thing too- mostly bipeds.

The magical propulsion force of the body is dependent on how many limbs are currently connected to terrain, making the speed of movement uneven and synced to the movement of the limbs
That's a good idea.
Logged
JLJac
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #741 on: October 31, 2013, 12:23:37 AM »

Yeah, the framerate is looow. But a trailer was needed to submit to IGF, and as James said, the guy who was supposed to make one didn't really know what we wanted to have in it, so we ended up with a trailer that had a lot of unfinished levels shown. So James decided to make one himself, but neither of our computers are able to capture video very well, so here we are. As the game is not a commercial project it doesn't really matter that the trailer isn't the smoothest thing out there, as it's purpose isn't marketing, but just being a trailer so we could enter IGF  Tongue

Update 191
I've been away for a little vacation, if you wonder why I haven't been posting in a few days.

Yesterday I made a thing that I hope will have a big positive influence on the game - I threw together a sound prototyper for James. The sound prototyper is a special build of the game that can load sound files from a folder and replace samples in the game with these loaded sounds.

Earlier we have been having a problem where James make sounds, and send them to me, and I implement them and try it out. Then I give James useful feedback such as "It doesn't sound quite right. I don't know, just like, not quite right. Could you make it 'skueeeeshier'?" Then James would try to interpret that, make a new batch, send it to me, repeat and fade.

There is some kind of phenomena where a sound is percieved totally differently in the game than played by itself. I don't know if this is because of macromedia director's sound engine, or because of context. In either case a sound that appears to be perfectly awesome in windows media player can become lame in the game, perhaps because it doesn't sync with the animation.

Hopefully this problem is defeated now, as the sound prototyper allows James to work on the sounds and try them at the same time. The iteration process should hopefully be shortened from like two days to like two minutes.

I think this will make a big difference for the soundscape of Rain World, given that James can handle the horrible horrible user interface!
Logged
jamesprimate
Level 6
*


stealth ferret platformer


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #742 on: November 01, 2013, 11:50:34 AM »

ahh back working on stuff im actually good at!

yeah the sound prototyper is going to be great. it functions sort of like an ad hoc audio middleware, and will allow me to make essentially entire cohesive audio builds that I can send Joar, rather than just give him little pieces of the audio puzzle to sew together himself. (Certainly you guys with your modern game engines will laugh at this "why not use FMOD or WWISE?" youll ask, not realizing that this game is impossibly built in macromedia director hahaha)

One thing that Im not sure has been mentioned on here is that, as much of the character animation is physics / AI based, there is often no 'standard animation' for events, and thus by necessity much of the creature sounds are generative to one degree or another. Which is REALLY REALLY COOL. Despite collaborating on the generative audio for things like the lizard vocalizations, even I didnt know just how deep it all went until exploring with the sound prototyper and discovering subtle things like how the audio attached to each creature footstep or wing flap is actually generative within certain parameters. Pretty much everything heard in-world has aspects of randomness tied to the AI/physics behind it, which gives the game a deeply immersive, natural quality to it.
Logged

♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ~~~> http://jamesprimate.tk
JLJac
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #743 on: November 03, 2013, 12:43:50 AM »

Haha James, you're able to sell this game in a way I'll never will be  Grin But seriously, if you want a walking sound, you have to play it at each footstep, right?

Update 192
Adding new art assets...


(click for full size)

There are many new tiles etc, some of them can be seen in this image. See the metal spheres out on the left? Those utilize a new feature I've implemented for tiles, I call it vertical/horizontal displacement. To minimize confusion, let's talk about the vertical one. I have a tile that's repeatable. I chop it at some random height, and switch the parts. If I base the randomness of that chop height on the horizontal placement of the tile, all tiles that are in the same column will be chopped at the same place, and line up with each other. That way they will all be "scrolled" a random tile height up or down. I developed this for chains - now I can put several chains next to each other without them lining up perfectly.

Also I added a new framework for plant life. The thing in the screenshot I call "sprawlbush", and is the only implementation of that framework I have at this point. It basically creates branches and move them around at random in the 3D space, avoiding to collide with walls. If you look at how the leftmost plant has grown, you might notice that it has tried to avoid the airconditioner box or whatever it is. Previously I didn't have any plants that grew in the z-axis, and I think that these new plants have potential to look interesting with shadows - I'll do a little experimentation.

When moving in the Z axis the plants can never cross Z layer 5, because that's where the game is played. If a branch crossed layer 5 the player could pass through it, and it would look like it was cut off from the rest of the plant. Because of this these new plants are confined to either layers 0-5 or 6-29.
Logged
artemi
Level 0
**



View Profile Email
« Reply #744 on: November 03, 2013, 04:25:53 PM »

Oho! That plant sprawl is delicious. The thing that most stands out about this game is the organic feel, and the plants really highlight that at it's utmost. So with the Z-axis, your saying you can go behind or in front of the plants, but never actually THROUGH them, as we want to avoid clipping through the player. Could you simulate, say, a dense bush you need to wiggle into with a tunnel and a ton of plants both in front of and behind layer 5, then?

Also, you might have mentioned this somewhere, but how are colors decided? I notice some are brown and some gray, is that something you select and the whole stage tones to that color? Or Is it something you need to do panel by panel? How about plants? Do they get a 'stage' color pattern or is that decided as you lay down each plant?

The last question is about the font. I notice you have like neon lights in one font, but the game font is the graffiti font. Are they both in the build engine, one for building faces and one you can scribble on the side of walls? Or is the graffiti segregated to just the game menus and such?
Logged
Floresy
Level 0
**



View Profile
« Reply #745 on: November 04, 2013, 09:44:00 AM »

This game looks siiiick! Though it is infinitely lazy of me to ask... could someone direct me to any posts of how the procedural animation works?  It seems crazy interesting and definitely gives the appearance a cool feel.  Will follow, for sure.
Logged
JLJac
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #746 on: November 04, 2013, 01:56:19 PM »

Hi! A while back Chromanoid posted a summary of the technical stuff I'd written up until that point. I haven't really said anything significant since, so check it out,.
click the link thingie ^

@Artemi, I've been thinking myself about stuff such as tagging tiles as "dense plants" so that you would move slower, and other ideas. But since the plants are drawn into the level, they are not able to move, and it would looks strange if you interacted with them but they where completely static. So instead I've decided that the plants are never going to affect or interact with the player. There might be some deviations from that rule though, we'll see how it plays out.

Level color is different between areas, but the largest area by far is the one that's colored in the bluish grey you've seen in most screenshots. All levels may have 2 "effect colors", which are used to color plants etc. Plants can also be set to "dead", in which case they don't use effect colors.

The weird different fonts is an issue, yes. The grafitti/sign difference doesn't bother me much, because that's the way grafitti appears in real life as well; next to some sign with a industrial very proper san serif. But then Rain World has an asian looking alphabet as well, making the different writing styles as many as three (if you don't count the anonymous san serif in the menues). That might be a bit too much.

Update 193



More work on procedurally generated plants. This one is called "feather fern", and uses the same base code as the spraw bush. I don't know if I'm very happy with it yet... This is hard, takes a lot of iteration. At least it's nice to see 3D plants rather than completely flat stuff like I had before.
Logged
jamesprimate
Level 6
*


stealth ferret platformer


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #747 on: November 04, 2013, 11:43:44 PM »

 My Word!
Logged

♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ~~~> http://jamesprimate.tk
JLJac
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #748 on: November 05, 2013, 11:58:24 AM »

 Gentleman

Update 194



Fungi Trees. White fluorescent color and black. Like any plants their color can be anything, but I think I'm going to keep it to one (or maybe two) colours for each species.
Logged
JLJac
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #749 on: November 08, 2013, 01:32:53 AM »

Update 195
Returned to single player a little after not touching it for a long time because of IGF reasons. Worked a bit on the shelter levels, how they're going to behave. For now it looks like the "death by rain" will be inactivated in the shelter, whether or not you're actually inside the doors. But if you're outside the doors, there'll be a jet stream of water that will kill you either way. Hopefully I'll have some graphics to show how this looks soon.

The case I'm still not very sure about is when you are inside the shelter, the time runs out, and you don't have enough flies. I don't think this will happen very often at all (if you screw up so royally that you somehow end up back at the shelter with no time left and no flies, you're probably just going to load your last game) so maybe an unsatisfying "You starved to death" - message will suffice.
Logged
jamesprimate
Level 6
*


stealth ferret platformer


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #750 on: November 08, 2013, 03:10:38 AM »

maybe an unsatisfying "You starved to death" - message will suffice.

maybe an animation showing you turning into a skeleton? it would cool because the screen would be black anyway, so you curl up like normal... then just whither away...
Logged

♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ~~~> http://jamesprimate.tk
JLJac
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #751 on: November 08, 2013, 09:58:58 AM »

That's actually both awesome and easy to do! Might give that a go Smiley

Update 196
I'm at crossroads again. Have I been talking about how I feel about single player, with it being a bit goalless and all? In case I haven't, quick recap:
(For those of you who know the basic premise of the game, jump to "jump to here" further down")

Rain World is set in a rainy place, where the rain is intense enough to kill a creature. Whenever the rain stops, for just a minute, creatures emerge from hiding to hunt for food. You are one of these creatures.

Single player is about surviving a certain amount of days (might be called "the rainy season", but might also not. I haven't decided on if every season in rain world is rainy season, or if it gets extra bad a few months). The catch is that most days it's raining, so when there's a hiatus in the rain you have to go out and catch enough flies to survive in hibernation until the next dry spell. This has been simplified to the creature digesting exactly one fly per day. So, if there are five days of rain ahead, you need to catch five flies.

Then there's another factor - you can't hunt in the same place twice. Next time the flies will not be there. So you have to go further and further from the shelter to hunt.

The amount of extra flies you catch, on top of the ones necessary to survive, is your high score.

JUMP TO HERE.

I like this game set up, because it has an element of old school infinite games like Pac-Man. It's a story in itself, you're introduced to a world and you'll just have to try to survive. The story isn't stitched on, it's in the game, self-contained. Problem is, Pac-Man, Snake and the like are infinite games, where you are destined to fail and it's just a question of how many points you can get before that.

For Rain World I want to have some sort of winning condition, mostly because it has metroidvania elements and a game session is much longer than in Snake. In Snake it's OK that you die, but imagine having an rpg where your chararcter will die... I guess we all know that everyone dies eventually, but if you've spent some time with a game character you feel good to have a story ending where the character survives to die another day when you aren't watching.

These two things make Rain World single player a bit of an awkward hybrid. It's a simple-goal game like pac-man or snake. "Survive! It will get harder and harder," is that simple goal. At the same time it has an ending. We are used to endings as devices to frame narratives, but here we only have a gaping lack of such a narrative. There's no personal development or anything, just survival for an arbitrary amount of days and then a lame "congrats!" screen.

I have been thinking about what sort of narrative I could insert into Rain World, without breaking the things I do like about it. A while ago I had a conversation with James, and he gave one specific type of narrative a name: "Silver lizard stole your girlfriend"-narrative. Rain World should NOT have a "Silver lizard stole your girlfriend"-narrative. Everything about it is wrong. I think what bugs me the most is the anthropomorphization of the bear creatures. Waaaay to many human qualities implied. Girlfriends. Individual villains. Revenge motifs. The bear creatures actually have very few human qualities. They obviously utilize simple tools, but they don't seem to be able to manufacture them, and there's no indication that they have a language.

"Silver lizard stole your girlfriend"-narratives also have another problem, that they're linear in just the same way as every other game out there. That's not very interesting. We've all defeated enough girlfriend-stealing last bosses, who are evil for no reason or for bad reasons.

Rain World is not about those kind of stories. Rain World is about survival, in a nature-like setting. The world is harsh and dangerous, but there's no evil or sadism. No-one want to steal girlfriends. Everyone just want to eat. There are no opposing wills or political clashes, just the harsh conflict of who gets to eat tonight.

When the "Silver lizard stole your girlfriend"-narratives were dismissed, I had another idea. This one would be that the environments would tell a story of the past of the place. This could potentially be cool, though a bit disconnected from gameplay. It would be like playing the game, and have a parallel and optional little story going on at the side.

Problem here is that this would, once again, go against the core of the game. The core of the game is that you're an animal trying to survive.

I'm interested in the industrial environments of rain world, obviously. I spend quite a lot of time creating them. There's a reason why I didn't just have the game be about wild animals in a tropical jungle (though there are references to that setting - for example the levels set high up among the chimneys are called "canopy area" in my dev documents. I'm also pretty sure that the original biome of the place, before becoming an industrial area, had rain forest characteristics). But would they be enough to tell a story? Perhaps not. And most importantly, that would be the story of someone else, of those who built the place. For some reason, if there's anyone in Rain World I'm not very interested in, it would be those forerunners. They came, built their industries (changed some life forms?) and now they're not around any more for whatever reason. Probably economic reasons. There's no interesting apocalypse that we are post- , and Rain World is about the now, not the past.

The environments are industrial because I'm fascinated by the idea that animals interact with artificial environments. I'm interested in how those environments are perceived by animals. I'm almost 100% sure that animals don't ponder too much about who built what and why. So if my goal is to re-create the experience of being an animal in an industrial landscape, past mysteries are not the way to go.

So that brings us to my current idea for a story. The story is extremely simple, but as of now I like it.

There are a few shelters around the map. In one shelter, you find three pups. Their mother has not been able to make it back with food, or at all for that matter. Now you can choose to take care of them. It's not a menu choice in a dialogue box or anything, it's just a question of giving them some food or not.

They are a burden. They eat,sometimes you have to move them to another shelter, and then they're in danger and you have to lure lizards the other way etc etc. Maybe the amount of food you have puts you in a situation where you have to choose between giving all of them too little food, or give enough food to only one.

If the pups die, they die. It's up to you whether you want to load your last save. It's always a possibility to abandon them all together.

This means that there is a story, with narrative, but it's not stitched on, it's all in-engine. No events are scripted. Also, the entire story is optional. If it's too hard, you can just skip it. Maybe save it for your next play through.



What are your opinions?
Logged
Reilly
Level 1
*


14/f/tx


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #752 on: November 08, 2013, 11:10:58 AM »

Love it.
Logged

Franklins Ghost
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #753 on: November 08, 2013, 07:28:08 PM »

Brilliant idea Gentleman
Logged

Slader16
Level 6
*



View Profile Email
« Reply #754 on: November 08, 2013, 07:43:28 PM »

Are they part of the main story, or are they more of a side mission?
Logged

JLJac
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #755 on: November 08, 2013, 10:43:39 PM »

It will be an optional main mission, so to speak. The "main story" is just about surviving, so I guess it would technically be a side mission, but it would be the only side mission.

Update 197
Started working on the pup object. I'm basing it on the player object. This happened:



 Who, Me?
Logged
Slader16
Level 6
*



View Profile Email
« Reply #756 on: November 08, 2013, 10:53:49 PM »

It will be an optional main mission, so to speak. The "main story" is just about surviving, so I guess it would technically be a side mission, but it would be the only side mission.

Update 197
Started working on the pup object. I'm basing it on the player object. This happened:



 Who, Me?
Can they starve? Because usually in nature an animal would take the strongest  Evil
Logged

artemi
Level 0
**



View Profile Email
« Reply #757 on: November 09, 2013, 02:44:00 AM »

I like the idea of a limited duration Rain season. Perhaps it only lasts like a month, and the player is then left with the ending cutscene or whatever. If you were forced to move at least once during the journey, and are now in a new shelter then when you started, it will give the natural feel of you migrating to a new safer home, with all the rich emotions that brings with it.

The pups feel like a great addition to that story. You can leave them, or take them, or just take one of them, but feeding them is going to take time and effort you could be using for other things. The player is going to build their own story no matter what actions they choose. The instinct would be to try to save them all, but perhaps you CAN'T save them all unless your really good or break the 'normal' story path, doing hunts out of order to maximize flies.

On top of that, maybe there should be some additional reason to NOT save the pups. It seems unsatisfying to simply collect a large number of flies just to stockpile them, especially for multiple playthroughs when you know how many you need and how many are just extra. Maybe you could find a mate or something to give all the extra flies too at the end? Or maybe some mechanic where the number of flies needed might change for whatever reason, like if you get hurt you might need more flies to heal up? Or the number of rain days is semi-random, so you know how many you need THIS week, but no real idea how many you'll want in total?

Edit: I had an idea at work, though I suspect it would be more trouble then it's worth. What if you could steal and hatch a lizard egg? And, like, it'd think it was your momma, and you'd have to feed it... stuff to make it not eat you, but then it'd like protect your lair or something. Since the lizards don't eat flies, the only thing I can think of to feed it is the cubs though, so maybe not the best idea... lol
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 12:42:54 PM by artemi » Logged
Christian
Level 7
**



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #758 on: November 09, 2013, 11:49:27 AM »

The whole pup/side mission/story sounds so good and fits the world and tone so well. Why does this have to be a free game again? I would pay for this, it sounds so good
Logged

Visit Indie Game Enthusiast or follow me @IG_Enthusiast to learn about the best new and upcoming indie games!
Slader16
Level 6
*



View Profile Email
« Reply #759 on: November 09, 2013, 12:45:43 PM »

You're making this free!?!?
Logged

Pages: 1 ... 36 37 [38] 39 40 ... 131
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic