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[1982]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy

I have always wondered why majority of RPG's are fantasy themed.

- Is it because fantasy genre in general is very popular? Why?
- Does fantasy allow better usage of conventional RPG game mechanics? Does it really?

What makes fantasy "better" than some other themes? It has to be some how superior because there it lots of that, also outside RPG genre.

If you can, give examples of games that are not fantasy, but would be better if they were.




If you wonder how Henry Kissinger relates, think harder.

[mirosurabu]

Because, by their very nature, fantasy themes are flexible and so they can better fit the underlying ruleset.

Rules are generally much better when they don't accurately correspond to those from real-life. This is why simulationist games often don't turn out to be good - the rules become too complicated and, as a result, games become opaque and full of exploits.

[Blodyavenger]

Interesting topic I must say

In my opinion that's mainly because first RPG games were fantasy (games & table ones like very known D&D) and most people connect "RPG" with "Fantasy".

I think that most of RPG fantasy game developers are under influence of another fantasy game / movie / book. They had to start expanding their imagination from one point.

In fairy tales for examples, we hardly find post-apocaliptic thematic or some weird alien-breed enviroment. Most of the times there are dragons, forests, princes, swords...

Every thematic can be filled with riches and enjoyable world but as I can see, majority of people prefers playing "fantasy" games and consequently more games of that kind are developed.

For example, I found out that more people bought and played Oblivion than Fallout3 while both game are simply great.

Overall, I think the influnce we get trough the life from other sources is the main factor "WHY fantasy > other".

[1982]

fantasy themes are flexible and so they can better fit the underlying ruleset.

Hmm. Maybe this whole thought process is twisted then. Maybe we should think more of what kind of world and setting we want, and then try to think what kind of game and mechanics would make most out of it. But when thinking RPG, I don't see any reason really why that mechanic / rules couldn't be implemented to whatever theme.

[leonelc29]

Fantasy
Pronunciation: /ˈfantəsi, -zi/
noun (plural fantasies)
-the faculty or activity of imagining impossible or improbable things

so that mean fantasy = everything that's not reality. They won't be much interesting stuff/story to tell if it's not fantasy. They won't be a quest to prevent a villain from destroying the whole world if there's no fantasy. They won't be fighting monster and creature if there's no fantasy. also...

Because, by their very nature, fantasy themes are flexible and so they can better fit the underlying ruleset.

[Kyle O]

RPG that is the pacifist sort, such as Harvest Moon or Animal Crossing: no fighting-- otherwise you have to fight each other-- and so we need excuse to not be using guns-- because nobody wants to fight with guns all the time-- you could set game in the past and fight with swords-- but only other humans to fight-- this can be boring-- so add some monsters! suddenly fantasy I guess.

[1982]

so that mean fantasy = everything that's not reality. They won't be much interesting stuff/story to tell if it's not fantasy. They won't be a quest to prevent a villain from destroying the whole world if there's no fantasy. They won't be fighting monster and creature if there's no fantasy. also...

You took it too literally.

Fantasy is a genre of fiction that commonly uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting. Many works within the genre take place in imaginary worlds where magic is common.

[Hangedman]

In futuristic RPGs, why would you use a sword when you can use a gun? Of course, games have successfully subverted that, Xenosaga for example, but the technology and guns could be swapped for magic and swords and it would only change the visual style. SMT played it straight by making you fight things that didn't respond to human weapons like a human would. Star Ocean just mashed everything up and ignored the mess.

That aside, fantasy has greater justification for a wide variety of weapons/tools/actions and locales. It also allows you to force the player to deal with things that technology has shortcut for us. Transportation, creating items, exploration, communication, etc.

Fantasy also has more direct parallels to the classic hero's journey that informs just about every story anyone writes ever, so it evokes imagination from people more easily.

[1982]

That aside, fantasy has greater justification for a wide variety of weapons/tools/actions and locales. It also allows you to force the player to deal with things that technology has shortcut for us. Transportation, creating items, exploration, communication, etc.

If it deals with technological themes it is more likely science fiction, not fantasy which this thread is about.

Thou, we could discuss about why RPG's are generally happening in imaginary worlds.

[Blodyavenger]

We need to define that "RPG game" now. Is that RPG about restaurant where you build up a person from a student to a master chef?

Or fighting / exploring?

[Chris Koźmik]

Because most RPG fans are also fantasy fans? Don't forget that Dungeons & Dragons was fantasy, therefore for a long time fantasy and RPG were almost synonyms. It is that LATER they started adding more themes and redone D&D into non fantasy.

It's basicly historical reason, don't look too much into deep logic here It's a bit like Facebook, it was first here so it took the biggest share of the pie :D

[EddieBytes]

Do you want to be the great wizard of <insert mythical name here> or do you want to be captain Picard?
It's kind of a pirates vs ninjas question and I guess in this case the ninjas won.
Yours truly,

[mirosurabu]

Hmm. Maybe this whole thought process is twisted then. Maybe we should think more of what kind of world and setting we want, and then try to think what kind of game and mechanics would make most out of it. But when thinking RPG, I don't see any reason really why that mechanic / rules couldn't be implemented to whatever theme.

The top-down approach. You come up with the world, the role and the actions and then try to make a game out of it. The problem is, since unusual themes rarely fit the pre-existing rulesets, you have to invent a whole new genre. And that, that's really hard, if possible at all.

You can comprise the gameplay, but what that usually leads to is opacity and exploits (in the case of simulationists) or unfair puzzles, QTE's and even no gameplay at all (in the case of narrativists).

Or you can compromise the theme and give up on some fidelity, which leads to mixed top-down approach ala Civilization games (or any strategy game).

I don't think there are non-imaginary themes that fit RPG ruleset well enough. RPG's are based on journey, fights, tactics, NPC's and dungeon exploration. You're playing a hero who walks, fights and occasionally talks. Nothing else.

Few non-imaginary themes deal with fights. Or even walking.

Can you give any non-imaginary theme, which, in your opinion, would fit RPG tropes well?

[1982]

Can you give any non-imaginary theme, which, in your opinion, would fit RPG tropes well?

Well anything really. Of course if it is completely non-imaginary, that already narrows the possibilities a lot. But yes, if history is allowed, maybe colonization times or ancient greek could be a setting/theme. Heck even a pre-history.

If we ignore history and future, then maybe just a life of a person in our world. Then it is matter of details, story, and stuff like that to make it interesting.

Journey: Character goes different places and experiences different things
Fights: Fights against threats; animals, murderers, robbers, cops...
Tactics: Well these are ways to solve threats or quests
NPC: Well, it can be anything. Police officer, girlfriend, politician
Dungeons: Large hotels, ships, underground bases, nature...

[mirosurabu]

Oh, I see what you mean.

So basically GTA with more RPG elements?

[1982]

Oh, I see what you mean.

So basically GTA with more RPG elements?

Yeah, for example. Lets put it this way: Less GTA, more RPG 

[Hijinkz]

I think the fantasy genre lends itself well to RPGs for a number of reasons. The same reasons that Sci-Fi lends itself well to RPGs. You can paint yourself out of any corner by using a new spell or "technology." It also serves the leveling up system because the more you use your powers, the stronger they become like in books and games before the video game RPGs.

Above all, from a story teling perspective, fantasy lets you define characters in more of a black/white, good/evil way. The good guy can be as much of a shining white knight as you want. The opposite is true for the bad guy. In Final Fantasy 3 when Kefka poisons the water, that is a truly dastardly deed. The impact of that might be lessened if he were more nuanced.

[Gorgoo]

I think it's probably a matter of tradition more than anything else. Like Archibald said before, Dungeons & Dragons kind of created the RPG genre, and it was a fantasy game.

And really, there are a good few RPGs without that aren't fantasy games, but when they break out of the tradition of "fantasy", they also have a tendency to break away from some of the traditions of RPG design. That makes them slightly less recognizable as RPGs.

Look at Fallout, Mass Effect, Deus Ex, and Alpha Protocol. I've heard people argue that some of those aren't RPGs, that they're shooters with "RPG elements", but to me they've always seemed like RPGs with "shooter elements". That is, they've swapped out the traditional battle system the same way they've swapped out the traditional setting. Most everything else still plays like an RPG.

[baconman]

1. It is certainly by far the most diversified and developed set of everything. Settings, creatures, characters, tales and tropes.

2. It is basically Creative Commons.

Space/Sci-Fi is a close second, but it's so trademarked to death that it's impossible to develop from - you know Aliens and Predator; that Vulcans and Romulans are from Star Trek and Wookies and Ewok are from Star Wars - and that you never bring the two brands together without a "vs. fanfic" involved. Sci-Fi geeks are WAY too fucking territorial and proud to allow that setting the full range of diversity it has; although practically everything "Medieval Fantasy" is always fair game.

A third would be videogaming fiction as a whole, and it's competing pretty tightly now.

[1982]

Space/Sci-Fi is a close second, but it's so trademarked to death that it's impossible to develop from - you know Aliens and Predator; that Vulcans and Romulans are from Star Trek and Wookies and Ewok are from Star Wars - and that you never bring the two brands together without a "vs. fanfic" involved.

But what stops to develop new worlds and universes?