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[Hplus]

Hi folks!

So I'm in a fairly unique situation. I'm a junior in a college where I can design my own major, and I am doing so this quarter. At first I thought my major was going to be oriented around cognitive science, then interdisciplinary arts, but now, after my freshman and sophomore years of jumping around between various disciplines, I am pretty confident that I'd like to take my independent game design hobby and turn it into my life.

I get to build my own BA in game design. I am looking for input from designers (especially those who know more than me, which is probably most of you) on what I should be including. My school has a lot of leeway for independent studies. What kinds of things should I be doing independent studies on? What books should I read, what projects should I undertake?

If a new school asked you to design a BA in game design from the ground up, what would you make sure to include?

[baconman]

Computer science.
Animation, and related, illustration.
Literature/Creative Writing.
Programming/Technical Writing.
Lots of fucking math. Algebra/Geometry mandatory, Trig highly recommended.
Music Theory/Composition
Physical Science
Architecture/Computer-Aided Drafting (ESPECIALLY valuable in level design and 3D modeling)
Bowling/Swimming/etc. (First off, it gets you off of your butt and out a bit. Second off, it gets you used to stuff like physics and how they actually work.)

Optional: History, Psychology/Humanities, and Fashion studies, as it relates to settings/periods and character design/development.

Highly recommended: Business creation and Financial Planning/Management or Bookkeeping 101. You know... for that OTHER part of operating a gaming company (or operating well within one - you'll understand why some moves are cool but not cost-effective and so forth).

[rivon]

Bowling/Swimming/etc. (First off, it gets you off of your butt and out a bit. Second off, it gets you used to stuff like physics and how they actually work.)

LOL

Lots of fucking math. Algebra/Geometry mandatory, Trig highly recommended.

Linear algebra (vectors, matrices) + Mathematical analysis (differentiation, integration) should be enough...

[Hplus]

@baconman:
Those things are all relevant to game design, but I see them as actually just corollaries or side-fields to game design itself. I'm doing a CS minor and have a lot of background in various interdisciplinary arts, but I think I want to make this major specifically game design, from the perspective that the design of games is an art-form, a craft, and a form of culture-generation. So, courses I am thinking would be relevant to the major would be things like:
-Pen and paper/tabletop game design workshop
-Video game design workshop
-Game design theory
-Video game criticism
-Human-computer interaction
etc.

For instance, I'm currently doing an independent study called Experimental Video Game Design, in which I am reading Game Feel by Steve Swink and making weekly game/toy digital interaction sketches focusing on the aesthetics of human-computer interaction and control.

Your suggestions are good (and thanks for the input!), but I'm aiming for something more specific, I think.

[Azure Lazuline]

To be honest, you can't really get a degree specifically for game design (or if you can, it won't do much). If you want to be an independent developer, just sit down and make some games. Use the stuff you learn in college to make it better, but most of the actual game design will be on your own. Think of it like art - you don't go to an art school to learn how to draw, you go there once you're already good at drawing, and it helps you get better. You don't get good at art just by reading about design principles, the same way you don't get good at game design just by reading books about it. Just start making games, right now. The more games you make, the better you get at it.

[rivon]

You get better at design by reading the books about it. The same with art. Of course it is not at the level that after reading a few books you would make great art/design. But you definitely get better to some degree by following principles/techniques etc. presented in the books.

[Zaphos]

I expect the most important thing by far is just ... actually designing games.  And game levels, etc.  I'm somewhat skeptical that game design theory or game criticism are at a point where they're actually useful; iirc Jonathan Blow has said that most game design books are actually harmful.

As an aside, it might be more useful to just major in CS ... not sure there's any value to a self-made game design degree?  Both in the sense of, it's doubtful that industry/etc will respect it, and in the sense of, the value you get out of college is in the smart people presumably learning with you and teaching you; if you're mainly self-teaching / independently studying, you're probably not getting much value out of the school?

[Zaphos]

ah, here's the quote from Blow I was thinking of above, re game design books:

Probably the one I recommended was Raph Koster’s “A Theory of Fun for Game Design”.

To Andrew’s question, almost every book written that claims to teach game design is crap. I don’t know of any that do not damage the reader. Koster’s book is not really trying to teach concrete aspects of game design; it’s a different kind of thing (but you will probably still find it useful).

- http://the-witness.net/news/2011/11/designing-to-reveal-the-nature-of-the-universe/#comment-7084

the rest of the thread is also relevant to studying game design / what to study in uni.

[Hplus]

So to clarify, people apparently think that I am not currently making games, but this isn't true. I'm aware that the best way to learn any art is by creating thoughtfully. Before devoting any in-school time to game design I spent about 2 years making flash games and reading about game design on my own. You can find some of my things (the things that ended up in a finished-enough state to put online for feedback) here: http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/Hplus and here: http://www.itslikethiseveryday.com/


@Zaphos: My major and experience in school wont be exclusively independent studies. I'll probably have 3-10 credits of independent study and 10-15 credits of various other classes, especially computer science, each quarter. I do agree that going to school and avoiding peers is a really bad idea.

Anyways, having read several books about game design, I think I'd disagree strongly with Jon Blow's statement that they are generally damaging. Anything that presents a theory to the reader can be worthwhile, given that the reader is a sufficiently strong critical thinker that they're able to filter bad information.

Also thanks for the link to Blow! I generally like his perspective on things.


@Azure: You don't get better at drawing by just drawing, but by drawing, thinking, critiquing, reading, talking, and drawing some more. You might not go to art school to learn how to draw, but having spent a year at art school I will comfortably assert that you can dramatically improve under the right tutelage, much more-so than if you just sat at home and drew all day.

I definitely agree that it is crucial to my learning about game design that I actively design games. I disagree that it is the only thing I should be doing, though. I also wonder whether there are certain ways to go about design that would be more or less instructive for me. Should I be making lots of little games? A few bigger games? Puzzle games? Board games? Should I be dabbling in genres and styles I'm less comfortable with, or focusing on whatever comes easiest to me?

[Paul Eres]

a lot of the most well-known game designers have art backgrounds, not programming backgrounds; e.g. miyamoto

so i'd include at least as many art classes as programming/math classes. there's as much in common between illustration / graphic design and game design as between computer science and game design. in my own day to day work creating games, i use things like color theory more often than i use things like linear algebra

also since design is often high-level stuff, i'd recommend a good grounding in general knowledge; philosophy, psychology, anthropology, history, biology, chemistry, etc.

in general though i actually think that often college hurts more than helps. if you spent the time you'd spend in college making your own games instead (and i know you said you're already doing that, but i mean doing it *full time*) you'd learn a lot more, a lot faster

for reference here is my college transcript; these are not the courses i would necessarily recommend, but it's what i took, and a lot of them i took with the intention of being a better game designer. i'll put a star next to the ones that i feel have helped me the most

fall 1997
*general biology 1
general chemistry 1
calculus for mathematical and physical sciences
*perspectives on agriculture and the environment

spring 1998
general chemistry 2
intro to experimentation
*astronomy & cosmology
general psychology

fall 1998
organic chemistry 1
intro to computer science
elementary latin
general physics
intro to food and nutrition

spring 1999
*general biology 2
organic chemistry 2
general physics 2
general physics lab
*economics, people, and the environment

fall 1999
quantitative chemistry lab
scientific & technical writing
*genetics
elementary japanese 1

spring 2000
cell physiology
elementary japanese 2
*intro to philosophy
*social psychology

fall 2000
elementary german 1
intermediate japanese 1
*sensation & perception
*personality psychology
general biochemistry 1
experimental biochemistry 1

spring 2001
intermediate japanese 2
american government
general biochemistry 2
protein & enzyme chemistry
experimental biochemistry 2
*social and economic factors of health & disease

fall 2001
*cultural anthropology
*neurobiology
endocrinology
organic chemistry lab
*principles of literary study: poetry
calculus for the mathematical and physical sciences 2

spring 2002
*topics in anthropology: games
*topics in anthropology: love letters
topics in anthropology: language & gender
topics in anthropology: culture & food
*development of europe 1 (history)
*development of europe 2 (history)
multivariable calculus
*principles of abnormal psychology

note that i didn't start my one computer class because everything in it i already knew, i just took it because it was a requirement but didn't actually learn anything since by that point i had been programming for a decade so teaching me what if statements are and what arrays are just wasted my time

[Hplus]

@Paul Eres:

Thanks for the reply! Seeing your course list is really informative. I agree that game design has as much to do with art as with programming, and I definitely come from an art background more than a programming one (though I am working on a CS minor, as I said). I'm also just finishing a minor in philosophy, so I'm aiming at picking up a lot of general knowledge from college as well.

I wonder why you starred all of your biology courses? I feel like game designers usually point to physics when they tell you to study science, and so it's interesting to me that physics doesn't seem to rank as high on your list.

[Derek]

I agree with everyone who says making and playing games is the best way to learn game design, and that school is best for learning the production side of development (programming, art, etc.) if you don't have the discipline to learn it on your own.

[Hplus]

I agree with everyone who says making and playing games is the best way to learn game design, and that school is best for learning the production side of development (programming, art, etc.) if you don't have the discipline to learn it on your own.

I agree that making and playing games is probably the most critical thing here, but are analysis and criticism important as well? Are there certain ways to go about making and playing games that I ought to be exercising?

Am I wrong in thinking that game design is something worth studying as well as doing? I would think that there would be better and worse ways to go about learning it, but maybe there isn't enough experience in the field to guide me, or maybe I'm just plain wrong. People don't seem to want to suggest ways to study game design, but are either saying, "study these other things which will be relevant," or, "just make games."

[John Sandoval]

im not gonna lie

when i think of 'game design' schools i get a bad taste in my mouth

[Paul Eres]

I agree that making and playing games is probably the most critical thing here, but are analysis and criticism important as well? Are there certain ways to go about making and playing games that I ought to be exercising?

Am I wrong in thinking that game design is something worth studying as well as doing? I would think that there would be better and worse ways to go about learning it, but maybe there isn't enough experience in the field to guide me, or maybe I'm just plain wrong. People don't seem to want to suggest ways to study game design, but are either saying, "study these other things which will be relevant," or, "just make games."

there are a couple of issues i see here

one is that the best way to "study" game design is to play a lot of games. i think acquiring and playing through a list of "games you should be familiar with" or "games which show great design" would be much more useful than any class or book

another is that often the best practitioners of a craft are not those most knowledgeable about that craft. there are exceptions, but generally great movie critics know a lot more about movies than great directors, and great book reviewers know a lot more about books than great novelists. knowing about something helps, but not all that much. knowing music theory and art history doesn't translate directly into becoming more skilled at composing music or at illustration or painting. great athletes often know very little about exercise science or anatomy or nutrition; they just know enough to get by. the reason michael jordon is better than most basketball players is not that he knows more about the physics of throwing a ball, or more about basketball history. so while you should know the theoretical stuff, and it's worth studying, there are plenty of people who go without it and get by just fine

the third is that there *is* no way to study game design directly in college, there are no courses on it in most universities, so general knowledge is the best you can hope for. unless you can find a professor who actually made games (not just someone who teaches game dev and has never made a game, which you'll find in those specialized videogame college scams like digipen and the phoenix art institute and full sail), and he's willing to teach a class about it, there isn't much you can do. i do know that chris crawford (who is worth learning about if you haven't; look him up and read everything he wrote) once taught a class on game design, but i don't think he teaches anymore

if what you are after are recommend books on game design, all i can really recommend are the aforementioned chris crawford's writings, and some books on videogame history (such as "the ultimate history of video games" which despite its cheesy title is the best book on the subject that i know of). i've read others, but can't recommend most of them, since they tend to be prescriptive rather than descriptive, or tend to be too simplistic and rudimentary (intended for kids who know nothing about the game industry or how games are made)