Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

877971 Posts in 32895 Topics- by 24323 Members - Latest Member: nickFromPaintteh

May 20, 2013, 10:45:59 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessJustification for crowd funding?
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
Print
Author Topic: Justification for crowd funding?  (Read 2389 times)
ANtY
Level 10
*****


here i am to save the day... or wreck it


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2012, 01:46:21 PM »

I just don't think many people are going to donate money if they knew the money is going to be used as a salary and to fund your vacation to Hawaii.
It's sad that you don't understand that developers also need to live of something. Pay their bills, food, that's what the "salary" is used for, not some "vacation to Hawaii".

I still go to school and live at my parents place and thus I don't need any money to make games, but if I'd work full-time as an indie developer how am I supposed to live? Salary is something necessary.
Logged

PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2012, 02:14:06 PM »

That's ok, as long as you mention to the donators that they are going to pay for your up keep. Also, I was talking about profit. You can get paid the bare minimum to survive, but you can also take a salary that match the industry standard salary of your level. So which did you mean?
Logged


Kickstarter? no no no... it's Kicksucker...
leonelc29
Guest
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2012, 10:55:19 PM »

i think everyone mean bare minimum, as this "salary" is needed for the developer to continue his/her developing work without starving or the risk of getting kick out of the house. Sure, you can live with your saving and all, but then since you have the saving, why ask for so much in kickstarter? so what everyone trying to say(i guess...) is, ask for this "salary" if you don't have enough saving to get through the developing day, or don't ask if you have enough saving to get through.(or maybe don't start the kickstarter at all)

Of course, this "salary" only cover what ANtY said, and not vacation or get drunk. Still, if people trust you and like your game, they doesn't mind putting their saving into your account.

Maybe you will understand more if you read some of the EndlessFluff blog post.
Logged
Nix
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2012, 10:53:31 AM »

http://www.inc.com/slava-rubin/the-case-for-crowdfunding.html

Sort of relevant, though PompiPompi still seems to refuse to understand the very real costs behind making a game full-time.
Logged
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2012, 11:04:18 AM »

The costs of making a game, depends on how you make it.
There is the minimal living costs of the developer. There is hardware, internet(part of living cost actually) and etc.
What else? If you give someone a salary, it means you employe or contract people. Indie developers can avoid doing that by doing everything on their own or collaborate.
Paying someone a salary, or paying yourself a salary beyond the living costs is probably the biggest expenses though. You don't need to pay that if you collaborate or do anything on your own.
That is what I ment. I didn't mean indie developers don't need any money, heh.
Logged


Kickstarter? no no no... it's Kicksucker...
ANtY
Level 10
*****


here i am to save the day... or wreck it


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2012, 11:20:16 AM »

Salary makes things easier, and if you're collaborating on a game with someone how are u gonna share the money? You pay him and yourself salaries, not count his living costs.
Logged

Blademasterbobo
Level 10
*****


yes, i'm a duck


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2012, 05:28:13 PM »

yes because it's really that easy to do everything on your own / find someone (who isn't a flake) to collaborate with

youre livin in a dream world, bro
Logged

Hand Point Left Hand Shake Left Hand Thumbs Down Left Hand Thumbs Up Left Bro Fist Left Hand Metal Left Toast Left Hand Fork Left Hand Money Left Hand Clap Hand Any Key Noir Hand Joystick Hand Pencil Hand Money Right Hand Knife Right Toast Right Hand Metal Right Bro Fist Right Hand Thumbs Up Right Hand Thumbs Down Right Hand Shake Right Hand Point Right
Archibald
Level 3
***


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2012, 01:17:50 AM »

Well, the "bare minimum to survive" part is flawed. Adult males are supposed to make enough money for them to survive, for their kids to survive, for their pregnant wife which can't work right now to survive, some money to help their eldery parents, emergency savings in case something goes wrong so your family don't starve, money to pay taxes so the country has funds to pay for essectial public services, money to pay off mortage of your house so your kids don't have to live on the streets, and a bit of extra money so you can take your family to Hawaii vacations once in their life time. Usually, you don't earn these "bare minimum money" when making games Smiley

But if you are a teenager or a student, why not, you always have a safety net and extremely low costs of living, I guess you can ignore the salary part them.
Logged

URRPG - Unnamed Nostalgia Retro RPG, in development
Europe1300 - medieval sim in alpha stage
leonelc29
Guest
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2012, 02:39:56 AM »

Well, the "bare minimum to survive" part is flawed. Adult males are supposed to make enough money for them to survive, for their kids to survive, for their pregnant wife which can't work right now to survive, some money to help their eldery parents, emergency savings in case something goes wrong so your family don't starve, money to pay taxes so the country has funds to pay for essectial public services, money to pay off mortage of your house so your kids don't have to live on the streets, and a bit of extra money so you can take your family to Hawaii vacations once in their life time. Usually, you don't earn these "bare minimum money" when making games Smiley
it's not "flawed", really, it just some of your point doesn't even count as the "bare minimum" we're talking about.

make enough money for them, their wife(or maybe husband, if you prefer) and their kids to survive, money to pay taxes, money to pay rent and bill is the bare minimum, which make sure the developer can concentrate with his/her development work and deliver in time and fast. The rest is just some sort of extra money to entertain oneself, which is not.

And about the pregnant wife, you know, when she did actually have a full-time job on a company, the company will still pay her when she's on pregnancy leave, so saying "pregnant wife which can't work right now to survive" is just plain wrong. And hey, who would want a wife when they don't have saving throughout the developing work and have to depend some of the money on crowd funding to fund their living?
Logged
ANtY
Level 10
*****


here i am to save the day... or wreck it


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2012, 09:07:02 AM »

I mainly agree with Archibald, but he exaggerated a bit, this:

And hey, who would want a wife when they don't have saving throughout the developing work and have to depend some of the money on crowd funding to fund their living?
Logged

PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2012, 09:57:06 AM »

Again, I am not saying indies shouldn't make a profit. I am just trying to look at the perspective of the contributor\donator\supporter. The crowd who give indies their money.
Let me ask you, when the supporters\crowd shouldn't donate to crowd funding? When would you donate? When you won't?
I think I saw a few kickstarters who seem to find excuses and reasons why they need the money, when they are not stating the real reason. That is because the real reason might be a lot less popular...
Logged


Kickstarter? no no no... it's Kicksucker...
ANtY
Level 10
*****


here i am to save the day... or wreck it


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2012, 10:15:30 AM »

I guess that the deal breaker is still the game, not the reason it's authors need money for.
Logged

Nix
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2012, 02:56:03 PM »

Again, I am not saying indies shouldn't make a profit. I am just trying to look at the perspective of the contributor\donator\supporter. The crowd who give indies their money.

You still don't get it. Crowd funding isn't about giving developers profit right out of the gate. It's to give the developers an opportunity to focus completely on making the game and make it happen faster than if a) the developer worked on it as a side project or b) if the developer saved up money first and then worked on it full time.
Logged
Garthy
Level 6
*


Quack, verily


View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2012, 05:21:32 PM »


Crowd funding isn't about giving developers profit right out of the gate. It's to give the developers an opportunity to focus completely on making the game and make it happen faster than if a) the developer worked on it as a side project or b) if the developer saved up money first and then worked on it full time.

I think that this is an excellent summary.

One important thing to note of course is, lacking a benefactor of some sort, the money to pay the bills has to come from *somewhere*. Perhaps a publisher or investor is willing to front this money, perhaps it is crowdsourced, or perhaps the developer has saved up a chunk of change and is willing support themselves.

As to the source of funding, at some point you have to convince someone that handing over money to you to support your project is worthwhile. For self-funding, you have to convince yourself. Wink For a publisher or investor, they will have their standards that you must meet.

For something crowdsourced, you have a pool of x people who hear about your calls for funding, of which y people will consider that it is worthwhile. Rather than convincing one investor to take a significant risk, you are convincing y people to take a lesser risk. You have to have an attractive pitch of some sort- it might be your personal star power, or the strength of a past game, or that you're willing to fill a neglected market niche. Each of those x people have their standards as to whether or not they will invest. For any significant x, y will be less than x, ie. there were people who were not convinced. Most of the time, y will be non-zero as well, ie. you have convinced some people to take the risk.

PompiPompi, you have your standards on what people should and shouldn't do in their kickstarter projects, and this will drive the projects that you choose to support. A developer who wants *your* support will have to meet *your* standards. However, the important thing to realise is that with crowdsourced funding, everyone has their own standards, and any developer needs to convince sufficient people to fund it, but doesn't have to convince *everyone*. It is possible, in fact, I'd say very bleeding likely, that the benefit of getting the support of people who insist that the developer live on basic subsistence wages only simply isn't worth the cost. In such a position, I would personally be chasing the group of people who would rather see me on a proper living income.

PompiPompi, you have every right to hold the position that you have. One thing to note however is that if your standards are too high, and the impositions you would place too onerous, then unless you're offering a lot personally (eg. you regularly give out $10k funding packages to people who meet your requirements), then people may simply look at what you ask, say "too hard", and move on to the next person. If the fruit at the top of the tree looks just like the fruit elsewhere on the tree, I'm not going to get out my ladder to get that bit of fruit. I'll just pick from the lower-hanging fruit instead, or perhaps from the next tree, and fill my basket that way.

I would suggest that given the response so far in this thread, your standards *might* be a bit high, and as such, there may be few willing to make the effort to meet them.

Also, a final thought: You would appear to see any amount above subsistence income as a profit? I think that an argument could be made that profit is any amount above the wage that the same person could get working a stable job for someone else, and as such many developers working on such a project are taking a *loss*. I think in many cases many developers are willing to take a hit on their potential income to make their project happen. In fact, sometimes the reduced amount they would pay themselves is part of the pitch; that they're willing to give up a better life to make the project happen.
Logged
Radix
Level 10
*****


Glen Forrester

terminus_radix@hotmail.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2012, 08:54:36 PM »

Again, I am not saying indies shouldn't make a profit. I am just trying to look at the perspective of the contributor\donator\supporter. The crowd who give indies their money.

You still don't get it. Crowd funding isn't about giving developers profit right out of the gate. It's to give the developers an opportunity to focus completely on making the game and make it happen faster than if a) the developer worked on it as a side project or b) if the developer saved up money first and then worked on it full time.
c) opportunity to work on a specific project which would otherwise be deferred/cancelled/not happen in favour of other things (as in the case of Double Fine). Sometimes the whole "do it in your spare time" thing isn't applicable.
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic