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1057408 Posts in 42958 Topics- by 34892 Members - Latest Member: Chris Delta

October 25, 2014, 05:48:06 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralIGF Thread 2013
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Tuba
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« Reply #560 on: March 29, 2013, 05:38:42 PM »

Grimrock is one of the best games I've played last year. So underrated.
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« Reply #561 on: March 29, 2013, 07:55:30 PM »

was legend of grimrock entered? if it was and wasn't a finalist for anything, that's pretty crazy

dum why u erase post
searching google for "site:igf.com grimrock" found nothing, so probably not.
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Matthew
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« Reply #562 on: March 29, 2013, 08:19:00 PM »

Not related to winners, but during my IGS soapbox talk I released some IGF judging stats: http://www.matthewwegner.com/igs-2013-soapbox-talk/#igf
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Matthew Wegner
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« Reply #563 on: March 30, 2013, 12:26:37 AM »

Very interesting... Any chance you could post medians instead of (or in addition to) means?  Means are outlier-sensitive and clearly there are outliers here.
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« Reply #564 on: March 30, 2013, 12:33:59 AM »

yeah, timw alone raised the average games rated by judges by a whole half point (actually it'd be slightly more than half a point; 900 games divided by 467)

the igf would be perfect if it would only use judges like timw
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« Reply #565 on: March 30, 2013, 03:10:46 AM »

dum why u erase post

I was getting all "what about this title and this title and this title and oh shit fuhgeddabowdit Eres is just talking about console-rpg-likes which doesn't include titles like Grimrock(not entered) and Bastion(Bastion got a bunch of noms but no prizes)".
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« Reply #566 on: March 30, 2013, 03:34:08 AM »

yeah i originally meant that the bias is specifically against "jrpg" (or jrpg-style games made by westerners, which are not jrpgs but are in the same genre), then someone asked if i had ever played a good indie rpg at all, so i named a few from both console rpg and pc rpg categories, because they didn't specify subgenre

i briefly considered naming bastion too as an example of a good indie rpg when i was asked about good ones, but, i wouldn't really consider bastion a rpg, it's more of a top down action game; even diablo is more of a rpg (since it has a variety of equipment, which bastion doesn't, it just has a few weapon choices). it's about as much of a rpg as zombie shooter and alien shooter are. plus i also wouldn't consider bastion an indie game (2 million in funding, published by warner brothers), so i chose not to name that one as one of my examples

so to be clear i think the bias i mentioned is specifically against traditional turn-based story-heavy rpgs, not action games with "rpg elements" like bastion, or action dungeon crawlers like grimrock. it's not really an igf thing though, that bias is common among modern gamers and game journalists in general

but this isn't the only genre bias of course, it's just the easiest example to identify. there are biases against niche games in general. there have been very few (if any) shmup finalists for example, simply because most players don't like shmups and aren't very good at them or informed about what makes a shmup good or bad

basically, i think the ultimate arbiter of whether a game is good or not isn't a generalized audience of all gamers, no matter how expert they are, but that game's particular audience, which is often niche. you can't expect someone who doesn't really play text adventures or fighting games or roguelikes to accurately judge whether a game is a good fighter or a good text adventure or a good roguelike, because those genres have standards that outsiders aren't familiar with
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Matthew
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« Reply #567 on: March 30, 2013, 10:39:56 AM »

Very interesting... Any chance you could post medians instead of (or in addition to) means?  Means are outlier-sensitive and clearly there are outliers here.

Sure!  I might be able to scrounge time to do a more detailed analysis, but for now:

Median ratings per entry:

5 - All entries
8 - Top 200
23 - Top 30

Median ratings from each judge:

16 - All judges
42 - Top 50
75 - Top 10
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Matthew Wegner
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« Reply #568 on: March 31, 2013, 01:00:18 AM »

Cool, thanks!  Was 16 the number of games 'assigned' to each judge?
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« Reply #569 on: March 31, 2013, 05:26:56 AM »

is it more likely that a game with more ratings become a finalist, or was there no correlation?
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« Reply #570 on: March 31, 2013, 10:27:15 AM »

Cool, thanks!  Was 16 the number of games 'assigned' to each judge?

Not really.  There wasn't one batch of assignments this year, but a continuous process of assigning games up to a threshold.  If you judged three of the games in your assignment pool, you'd get another three games to judge a day or two later.  Game assignments were prioritized on a few criteria.  This let the system assign games that needed more ratings, or games that needed particular hardware configurations, while still letting judges investigate games on their own.  There was a "checkout" limit where the system prevented you from downloading additional games if you had a high number of downloaded-but-unrated or assigned games pending.

Later in the judging cycle, I added a "Help Out" section to the filter options, which showed the 10 least-rated games.  We emailed judges about this, which helped bring up the minimum ratings-per-game.

Paul:  As near as I can tell, games with more views (and therefore more ratings) are more interesting games, and more interesting games tend to be finalists.  Comments on entries were visible to all judges, which helped with discovery.
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Matthew Wegner
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« Reply #571 on: March 31, 2013, 01:41:17 PM »

Wow, that sounds like a really nice system!
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« Reply #572 on: April 03, 2013, 08:43:39 PM »

Kinda relevant
http://robertjacksonbennett.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/some-thoughts-about-awards/
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« Reply #573 on: April 18, 2013, 09:15:25 AM »

Do they still email people the judge reports? I haven't read all of the pages...  Embarrassed
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« Reply #574 on: April 18, 2013, 04:17:06 PM »

Do they still email people the judge reports? I haven't read all of the pages...  Embarrassed

that's a good point. i'm faintly curious myself.
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« Reply #575 on: April 19, 2013, 01:14:21 AM »

Do they still email people the judge reports? I haven't read all of the pages...  Embarrassed

that's a good point. i'm faintly curious myself.

There are 1,200 pieces of judge-to-entrant feedback in the system (there is also a lot judge-to-jury feedback, in addition to the option judge-to-judge comments).

It's on my todo list!  Just been super busy pre- and post-GDC.  Sorry about the delay :/
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Matthew Wegner
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« Reply #576 on: April 29, 2013, 10:13:24 PM »

man i totally slept on this thread, and in doing so depriving myself of so many opportunities to shamelessly insert liquidsketch into the conversation Sad
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« Reply #577 on: April 30, 2013, 01:24:23 AM »

can u send to igf a game that is free-to-play and only online multi-plyaer?
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« Reply #578 on: April 30, 2013, 01:27:18 AM »

Is this the thread where I complain about how I didn't win any awards and how all the winning games are over rated?
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« Reply #579 on: April 30, 2013, 02:15:19 AM »

Is this the thread where I complain about how I didn't win any awards and how all the winning games are over rated?
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