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878427 Posts in 32923 Topics- by 24333 Members - Latest Member: blackarm

May 21, 2013, 09:50:41 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderators: Glaiel-Gamer, ThemsAllTook)Guys we should build a Smalltalk game dev environment
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Author Topic: Guys we should build a Smalltalk game dev environment  (Read 1595 times)
Guillaume
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« on: April 17, 2012, 01:54:25 PM »

Seriously, it'd be the shit. I don't see it faring extremely well for complex 3d games (possibly a performance problem, and not sure how well GPU programming would play with smalltalk like programming), but for anything 2d based it'd rock.
Stuff to think about:

http://victorsavkin.com/post/16375110741/why-smalltalk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlI-gPu3SPI
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JMickle
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 02:23:36 PM »

...what /is/ smalltalk? neither of those links really explained that to me.
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Guillaume
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 02:53:31 PM »

It's a language from the 80's where everything is an object, objects communicate by passing objects to one another, and you develop in an environment where you edit your code as it is running and see the direct outcomes etc.
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JMickle
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 02:56:00 PM »

i like live code editing.
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eigenbom
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 03:12:35 PM »

I've never used smalltalk, and as far as live code editing goes, it's an awesome idea, but I think we're still a long way off .. Victor's app is a party trick, but a very cool one. The live-coding musicians are breaking some ground, but it's still so immature. Real-time manipulation of in-game data, hot-loading assets (such as scripts), etc., otoh, are totally doable, so I'd like to see more games use them. But I'd champion any one trying to do this! It might be better do it in Lua though ... just because I like it. Wink
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yesfish
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 03:20:51 PM »

Unity allows you to edit then reload scripts as the game's running... I bet you could modify other engines to do similar functionality
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Dacke
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 03:48:36 AM »

I already rely on Hot Code Replacement when programming Java in Eclipse. Wizard

(But I don't have all the time-line, edit-future stuff that could be nice for a game)
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Polly
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 09:31:39 AM »

.. and you develop in an environment where you edit your code as it is running and see the direct outcomes etc.

ZGameEditor does exactly that ( using C instead of smalltalk ) .. and not just code, you can add objects, import textures, switch shaders, modify sounds, link DLLs etc. while your project is running.
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ANtY
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 09:51:31 AM »

This article was so fun to read  Big Laff Big Laff Big Laff

Quote
What is interesting about Smalltalk
1. Smalltalk syntax
in Smalltalk:
service := WeatherForecastService forLocation: 'Toronto'.
forecast := service forecastForDays: 5 format: 'Xml'.

in Ruby:
service = WeatherForecastService.forLocation 'Toronto'
forecast = service.forecastForDaysInFormat(5, "xml")

Quote
service.forecastFor ->{puts "Do stuff"}, ->{puts "handling errors"}

The same code will look better in Smalltalk:
service forecastFor: [Transcript show: 'Do stuff'] error: [Transcript show: 'Error!'].

not sure if trolling or just pascal programmer
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Xienen
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 06:37:38 PM »

This article was so fun to read  Big Laff Big Laff Big Laff

Quote
What is interesting about Smalltalk
1. Smalltalk syntax
in Smalltalk:
service := WeatherForecastService forLocation: 'Toronto'.
forecast := service forecastForDays: 5 format: 'Xml'.

in Ruby:
service = WeatherForecastService.forLocation 'Toronto'
forecast = service.forecastForDaysInFormat(5, "xml")

Quote
service.forecastFor ->{puts "Do stuff"}, ->{puts "handling errors"}

The same code will look better in Smalltalk:
service forecastFor: [Transcript show: 'Do stuff'] error: [Transcript show: 'Error!'].

not sure if trolling or just pascal programmer

Haha, agreed!  Big Laff
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Dacke
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 06:44:28 PM »

Quote
The snippet above will print ‘true’ and you cannot do anything to change it in Ruby. But you can easily change this behavior for Smalltlak. If you want to ... treat an empty collection as ‘false’ just define ifTrue:ifFalse: method.

Redefining the basic language constructs as you go. Awesome idea. Totally results in readable and predictable code. Just look at how great operator overloading works out in C++ Screamy
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ANtY
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 02:25:47 AM »

I always do
Code:
#define and &&
#define or ||
in c++

but yeah, changing true to false isn't anything useful
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Dacke
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 03:37:59 AM »

With great power comes great responsibility.

ANtY you are clearly a powerful, responsible and wise man Wizard

edit: also, operator overloading is to give existing operators new meanings. Which is a much darker witchcraft than simple #define-macros
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 03:48:04 AM by Dacke » Logged

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ANtY
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2012, 03:45:07 AM »

With great power comes great responsibility.

ANtY you are clearly a powerful, responsible and wise man Wizard
Finally someone noticed, I was wondering how long I'll have to wait  Huh?
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rogerlevy
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 08:36:27 AM »

Quote
The snippet above will print ‘true’ and you cannot do anything to change it in Ruby. But you can easily change this behavior for Smalltlak. If you want to ... treat an empty collection as ‘false’ just define ifTrue:ifFalse: method.

Redefining the basic language constructs as you go. Awesome idea. Totally results in readable and predictable code. Just look at how great operator overloading works out in C++ Screamy

This is the most retarded shit ever.  C++'s syntax is almost illegible as it is, so OF COURSE changing things up on people is just going to make it worse.
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