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[muku]

We did it! It works! :D

Spontaneous association: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64&feature=related

[Alec]

Spontaneous association: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64&feature=related

FotC rawks

[mikeaka]

Alright cool I got me some red/cyan 3D glasses from...Hannah Montana 3D concert, anyway...so exactly how do we make this work without using 3D programs?  Everywhere I have looked only shows how to make it work with photos and it's a long and arduous process, not suitable for game making at all.  Any one know of a way to do it with sprites or something?

[Golds]

yo, so i finally got some 3D glasses, turns out portland has center devoted to 3D imagery! i was playing around all day yesterday with colors, chutup and i are working on that two players one screen idea. i must say, im more confused now than when i started. this is the best color combination i could find for hiding the other players sprites, let me know if they work for you:



just look through one eye at a time. do you see any ghosting?, does it work with your glasses? after staring at it for so long i cant tell if i see ghosts or if the image has been permanently burned into my eyeball....

i found a couple other colors that worked in photoshop, but when exported, they ghosted  its a pretty odd palette, but after hours and hours of color sliding, its the most ghost proof combo i could find. even red and cyan on purple ghosts abit. if anyone knows of better combinations, id love to hear them.

I think the problem here is that everybody at the show will have red/cyan glasses on, not red/red or cyan/cyan glasses.  so if you were to wlak up and try to play this with someone, you'd have to tust that they're each closing the appropriate eye and not peeking.  dunno if that'll work well.

[Zaphos]

Alright cool I got me some red/cyan 3D glasses from...Hannah Montana 3D concert, anyway...so exactly how do we make this work without using 3D programs?  Everywhere I have looked only shows how to make it work with photos and it's a long and arduous process, not suitable for game making at all.  Any one know of a way to do it with sprites or something?

Well, you can make a red-channel version of your sprite and a cyan-channel version, and draw them at <x - d, y> and <x + d, y), where d is some function of the depth of the sprite.  d should probably be defined so it's close to 0 for the region of the scene you'd likely focus on, and it changes sign as you cross that depth.  Draw the sprites with additive blending so they mix to give the original sprite if you draw them at the same place.

I think the problem here is that everybody at the show will have red/cyan glasses on, not red/red or cyan/cyan glasses.  so if you were to wlak up and try to play this with someone, you'd have to tust that they're each closing the appropriate eye and not peeking.  dunno if that'll work well.

Or you could try to distribute pirate eye patches (anti-monocles?) and call it "custom display hardware" ...

[Ishi]

Silly question: what does one have to do to get xbox controller support?  Is it going to be the same as normal gamepad support (like one might do with SDL), or could one even cheat and assume some sor of keyboard remapping, or?

I didn't notice an answer to this, so:

You can use the sexy XInput API to detect and get the state of 360 pads in C++, which will let you do vibration as well.

Alternatively you can treat the pad as a normal Windows joypad, I'm not sure which buttons map to what number though. Also it does weird stuff like the left and right triggers map to the same analogue axis so you can't use them at the same time.

[Crackerblocks]

I'd be interested to hear about the gameplay ideas folks have for this.

Being negative nancy for a sec, but this seems impossible to me:

"Your game must use stereoscopy in a way that is integral to the gameplay.
A game that simply uses stereoscopy as a visual effect will not make the cut."

(The Golden Rule from the Gamma site)

I don't think there's anything you can do stereoscopically that you couldn't do with vanilla 3D rendering. It's a really cool effect, but it's just a depth cue. Games can already do this with perspective and texture detail differentials. We don't get any new variables from stereoscopy that we can somehow tie into gameplay.

[increpare]

Ah, cheers for the response Ishi.  It's not looking like I'm going to have the time/energy to make an entry though 

[mikeaka]

I'd be interested to hear about the gameplay ideas folks have for this.

Being negative nancy for a sec, but this seems impossible to me:

"Your game must use stereoscopy in a way that is integral to the gameplay.
A game that simply uses stereoscopy as a visual effect will not make the cut."

(The Golden Rule from the Gamma site)

I don't think there's anything you can do stereoscopically that you couldn't do with vanilla 3D rendering. It's a really cool effect, but it's just a depth cue. Games can already do this with perspective and texture detail differentials. We don't get any new variables from stereoscopy that we can somehow tie into gameplay.

It is possible if you mess with the positions of the red and cyan channels to increase and decrease depth, however when you split it the hit detection is going to get wacky.  Maybe you can have a real hit detector always placed directly where the eye makes the 2 images become one...I don't know...  Here are a few 3D places that may get your guys hopes up about what is possible.

http://www.barcinski-jeanjean.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AbaglypMonochromeToy.jpg

[Zaphos]

I don't think there's anything you can do stereoscopically that you couldn't do with vanilla 3D rendering. It's a really cool effect, but it's just a depth cue. Games can already do this with perspective and texture detail differentials. We don't get any new variables from stereoscopy that we can somehow tie into gameplay.

Can you thread a needle or swat a fly with one eye closed?  Stereoscopy as a depth cue gives different details than other depth cues, and it's very important for some tasks. Can any of those be made in to a game?

It is also possible that the stereoscopic effect could be abused in interesting ways.  For example, what if the stereoscopic depth cues convey different or conflicting information from the other cues in the image?  Or what if you encode two separate images, so the game must be played with one eye closed and the viewer may 'switch worlds' by switching which eye is open?  (How could the two worlds interact?)

Experiment, and maybe you'll find something you didn't expect!

[William Broom]

Or what if you encode two separate images, so the game must be played with one eye closed and the viewer may 'switch worlds' by switching which eye is open?  (How could the two worlds interact?)

This is what I would have done if I had been more ambitious. What I am doing (with michael) is still going to be cool though.

[Cymon]

It is also possible that the stereoscopic effect could be abused in interesting ways.  For example, what if the stereoscopic depth cues convey different or conflicting information from the other cues in the image?  Or what if you encode two separate images, so the game must be played with one eye closed and the viewer may 'switch worlds' by switching which eye is open?  (How could the two worlds interact?)

Both are exactly what I was thinking. Remember the old side scrolling jumping games? What if hidden walls could be seen with 3D glasses on because they were a different depth? Maybe even make the 3D glasses an option that you can put on whenever you wanted to avoid the whole headache thing. How would having 3D depth cues work if they were still providing information in games where depth cues are intentionally messed with like echocrome or Fez?

The two world thing could be like playing a game on two sides of a plane, either by flipping your character at certain points or simultaneously playing both sides like a puzzle. With both eyes open you'd occasionally get bad information thinking you were in danger when you were actually safe or visa-versa, but limiting your vision can help you succeed. The only problem, some of us can't wink both eyes as well.

[increpare]

This winking effect could be much more easily got by having a normal display and a 'change view' button on one's control-device...

[Zaphos]

This winking effect could be much more easily got by having a normal display and a 'change view' button on one's control-device...

True to some extent, thought not if the two worlds interact through some stereoscopic effect.

[Crackerblocks]

Can you thread a needle or swat a fly with one eye closed?  Stereoscopy as a depth cue gives different details than other depth cues, and it's very important for some tasks. Can any of those be made in to a game?

Excellent examples!

It is also possible that the stereoscopic effect could be abused in interesting ways.  For example, what if the stereoscopic depth cues convey different or conflicting information from the other cues in the image?

I have done some experimentation... I think your brain tries to resolve the world as a whole. So either you get a wonderful 3-D world, or you get a headache of red and blue pixels. If you give conflicting depth information, your brain gives up and says "this isn't a 3-D world, it's just a mess of color on a flat screen".

I'll keep experimenting. Just having trouble getting my right brain revved up.

Incidently, does anyone want some bare bones C++ D3D9 code for setting up stereoscopic rendering?