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[Eigen]

Why even use Flash when it's not for the Web? That's what gives its edge. It's like building a boat out of paper - could be done but there are other better suited materials out there.

[Paul Eres]

if all people thought that way, we'd have no VVVVVV, and no machinarium, no samorost 1 & 2... it'd be a great loss to the community

[Eigen]

I find it hard to believe that the makers of Machinarium would've been fiddling their thumbs if there wasn't Flash. Surely not.

[Paul Eres]

or they may not have gone into making games at all, and have gone into making movies instead

in any case the obsession with the optimal way to do things is a bit nerdy. i say use what you are comfortable with, as long as it works that's fine. are you really gonna tell an artist: no, you should have used oils, not acrylic, you fool

[Eigen]

or they may not have gone into making games at all, and have gone into making movies instead

in any case the obsession with the optimal way to do things is a bit nerdy. i say use what you are comfortable with, as long as it works that's fine. are you really gonna tell an artist: no, you should have used oils, not acrylic, you fool

I agree. Use whatever tickles your fancy but all I'm saying, is that there are certain tools that get some jobs done better than others. You could use a rock to hit a nail but hammer works better.

[Paul Eres]

yeah, but you also have to consider the cost of buying that hammer, and the cost of learning to use it. there are better tools than flash for some games, but flash is free (if you use flex), and easy to learn. so let's say there's this construction worker who always uses rocks to pound down nails. he's gotten very good at it. he has a special rock for that purpose, he knows which rocks work and which don't. he can probably nail it in better with that rock than most amateurs can with a  hammer. is it still a good idea for him to switch to the hammer when he has a big house to construct?

similarly, learning a language isn't non-trivial, it can take weeks or months. even years to truly master it. that's time that could go towards making a game

[JMickle]

If I want to talk to a spanish person that has a less-than-perfect grasp of english, i'm not gonna go ahead and learn spanish. It's fine to just take the slight discomfort of speaking in english and not waste any time.

I like that analogy, no matter how irrelevant it is.

moral of the story? make games.

[airman4]

is 14mb really considered "massive" for a flash game? that seems pretty small; i haven't made a game smaller than 14mb since the 90s, even in flash

it's like time is reversing itself

in the 80s: games were 10mb
in the 90s: 100mb
in the 00s: 10000mb
in the 10s: back to 10mb??

Well

I come freshly from consoles and pc games.
tekken , valkyrie profile , ace attorneys etc was my daily games (and today again)

So i have no such a big experience in indie games like you , especially flash games.

I alaways thought that flash games was like 500 ko /10 mb
When i came across newsgrounds , the limit of upload was 10 MB , now it's 20 MB , not 100 or 500 and when i talk sometimes with some other devs about the weight of my game (14 mb) they said that it's kinda big .

Of course my game is not the biggest , but i could have hard time to upload that in some sites , even today .

But the game itself in comparaison of some other is pretty small , yeah.

I dont argue with that.

edit
Eigen
Why using flash ?
Well flash is kinda easy and especially doesnt do a mess whith crazy installation things , you just click and play ,it's straight click & play

[Paul Eres]

hmm, it's surprising that some flash sites don't allow games that big. do newsgrounds and kongregate have upper limits on file size?

also: valkyrie profile is great (i only played the first one though, i want to play the sequel soon)

[Eigen]

Well flash is kinda easy and especially doesnt do a mess whith crazy installation things , you just click and play ,it's straight click & play

Yes, if you use Flash to make game to play in the browser then that's awesome. That's what it does best, as I said in my first reply. Take the browser-playability component out of the equation and you still have an great technology but without any real advantages.

[Fallsburg]

Dude, get over it.

I mean, why not use Flash to create a desktop game, if the game you want to make is makeable in Flash? 
Pretty much any 2d game that is commercially available could be made in Flash, no problem.  I'm serious.  I can't think of a single 2d game on Steam that couldn't have been made in Flash. 
You can make the game you want to make, and it can also be playable in a browser if you choose.  So what does it matter if there is some mythical better piece of software out there?

[airman4]

hmm, it's surprising that some flash sites don't allow games that big. do newsgrounds and kongregate have upper limits on file size?

also: valkyrie profile is great (i only played the first one though, i want to play the sequel soon)

Yes!!
valkyrie profile is the best rpg series for me
the second was so awesome , be careful , the gameplay got more complex (and very interesting with the system orbs and such )

Long time i didnt played vp 2 , i want to play again now...

Also i hope steam ever released some flash AS III games or desura .
I'm not saying i'll sell my game on steam (they probably not answer me as usual...) but it will be cool to see some neat flash games sold on steam