Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

891580 Posts in 33550 Topics- by 24788 Members - Latest Member: DonnieHill

June 20, 2013, 02:38:20 AM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessWhy big companies release on Windows+Mac but no Linux?
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5
Print
Author Topic: Why big companies release on Windows+Mac but no Linux?  (Read 2774 times)
Dacke
Level 10
*****


I have never been to Woodstock


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2012, 06:26:21 AM »

One of the articles I posted was about Lugaru, not the Humble Bundle:
http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/12/why-you-should-support-mac-os-x-and-linux/

Also, I didn't post the Humble Bundle stuff to try to prove anything conclusively. But there are two valuable datapoints there, worth quoting. They show that it is possible to succeed on the Linux market, which is more than we knew a few years ago.

Getting 2% Linux sales is in proportion to the current Linux market. I guess it can seem a bit disappointing, but at least the Linux version preformed just as well as the other versions. But what we hope for is of course to get a 5x-10x over-representation of Linux users.

I guess that general Linux sites fail to draw the right audience (gamers). While most gaming sites are Windows-centric. That may be a reason for the low buy-rate for Linux click-alongs.

Now for some concrete advice:
Oddball, I went to your site and tried your demo. I couldn't start the game without opening a terminal. That is a huge barrier for many users out there. I would suggest that you add a simple script file called "rungame.sh", that users can click to run the game. Additionally, you may want to consider building a .deb-file, to make it super-easy for Debian/Ubuntu/*buntu/Mint users to install the game. Additionally, additionally, you may want to set your game up for sale in the Ubuntu Software Center.
Logged

vegan • socialist • atheist • humanist • liberal • FOSSer
programmer • feminist • animal rights activist • pacifist • teetotaller
Oddball
Level 10
*****


David Williamson


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 06:41:45 AM »

I understand that the Linux sales represent their market share, but it takes more effort/time to support Linux than the other two OSs. I have to keep a huge number of Linux distros installed to test issues. I actually make liberal use VMs for testing as keeping so many OS partitions would be insanity. Your comment about running through a terminal is a case in point. I have three versions of Ubuntu installed and on all three the game can be run no problem with a double-click, no terminal necessary. Now who knows why on your particular flavour of Ubuntu you have to run it from the terminal, and frankly I'm losing the will to care.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to support Linux in the future, but will it be worth the effort and my time? The jury's still out on that.

Edit: I'm worried that I may be coming off as anti Linux here, but that isn't the case. I'd like to make it clear that I have nothing against Linux, my issue is purely about the practicality of releasing and supporting Linux ports.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 06:53:03 AM by Oddball » Logged

Dacke
Level 10
*****


I have never been to Woodstock


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2012, 06:50:44 AM »

Double clicking the binary works now Who, Me?
So never mind that previous comment. Sorry for giving you the Linux scares Undecided

edit: I bought your game. Please keep your spirits up!  Hand Thumbs Up Left Smiley Hand Thumbs Up Right

edit 2: I now understand what my original problem was. The binary didn't have the "executable flag" set. Presumably because zip doesn't preserve that flag. So to make it slightly easier for Linux people to play your game, you could provide it as a download: HackSlashLoot.tar.gz (which preserves the flag) or HashSlashLoot.deb (which installs the game on Debian/Ubuntu/etc.). But it's not necessary to either of these, I just want to give you some options Smiley

edit 3: Or just add a install-instructions.txt in the linux folder, explaining how to set the executable bit. I imagine that would lower the bar quite a bit for inexperienced users.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:23:08 AM by Dacke » Logged

vegan • socialist • atheist • humanist • liberal • FOSSer
programmer • feminist • animal rights activist • pacifist • teetotaller
Oddball
Level 10
*****


David Williamson


View Profile WWW
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2012, 07:56:50 AM »

Thanks, Dacke. One thing I will say about Linux users is they are some of the most helpful people.

I'll add an extra bit of data, without commentary as I'm not sure what it reveals exactly. During testing, before the game was on sale, the testers were split Windows ~77%, Mac ~13%, and Linux ~10%. It was this data that convinced me to push on with a Linux release. Like I say, I'm not sure what that reveals, but I thought I'd share the data anyway.
Logged

Dacke
Level 10
*****


I have never been to Woodstock


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2012, 09:33:24 AM »

I guess Linux users can be treated as consumers and a free work force rolled into one Wink

Regarding the Ubuntu Software Center, it appears to be dead easy to submit commercial games. You just send them an executable file and Canonical makes a debian package for you. It shouldn't take more than a few hours to submit your game:

http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
Logged

vegan • socialist • atheist • humanist • liberal • FOSSer
programmer • feminist • animal rights activist • pacifist • teetotaller
LionInteractive
Manbaby
*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2012, 10:57:35 AM »

It's not just one reason.  I think its:

1). Support: Every distro has its own set of quirks, driver support is all over the map, and users can have their own crazy builds.  Couple this with the same issues Windows has because it runs on millions of different combinations of hardware... and you're just asking for support headaches. 

2). Cost: Every platform you support requires extra development and QA time. Because of #1 above, this is potentially worse on Linux.

3). Small Market Share: Most games don't support Mac and it has a much larger installed base of users than all Linux distros combined.

4). Perception: Deserved or not, there is a perception that Linux users don't want to pay for software. 
Logged
hanako
Level 2
**



View Profile WWW
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2012, 12:53:43 PM »

I believe I've gotten more linux sales on my own than through the Ubuntu store, sadly.
Logged

Dacke
Level 10
*****


I have never been to Woodstock


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2012, 01:07:58 PM »

I suspect that the game won't sell itself on the Ubuntu Software Center (USC) unless it has good ratings or gets features.

I bought a game that I found today on the USC. It caught my eye because it had very good USC user reviews. I opted to buy it from from the developer's website rather from the USC, but I was drawn in by the Software Center.

I actually came across one of your games as well, but ignored it because it lacked user reviews. Unfortunately you don't seem to have any reviews on there, except for one of your games which someone gave a 3/5. If you encourage your Ubuntu/*buntu/Mint-using fans to review your games on the USC, I think more people will have a closer look and possibly buy them.

edit: I also fear that your pricing is a bit high, if you want to get people to randomly buy it in an app store. If a game is relatively cheap, I might spontaneously buy it to check it out. But if it costs $25 I won't buy it until I've researched it properly and at that point I will probably buy it from you directly (even if I found it on the USC to begin with)

edit 2: You may also want to consider uploading the demo version of your game, especially if the game is expensive. In March, a demo was the second most downloaded free app from the USC: http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/04/top-10-ubuntu-app-downloads-for-march-2012/
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 01:58:03 PM by Dacke » Logged

vegan • socialist • atheist • humanist • liberal • FOSSer
programmer • feminist • animal rights activist • pacifist • teetotaller
Klaim
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2012, 08:43:45 AM »

What about games that need to self-update it's binaries frequently?
Logged

http://www.klaimsden.net | Game : NetRush | Digital Story-Telling Technologies : Art Of Sequence
Dacke
Level 10
*****


I have never been to Woodstock


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2012, 10:38:27 AM »

As a rule of thumb, I don't think you can self-update binaries. Instead you submit a new version of the game and the update gets pushed to all users:
http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/updating-your-app/

The upside is that you don't have to maintain your own update system, the system will take care of everything. The drawback is that it has to go through the review process every time you update the game (to prevent problems and protect users from malware).
Logged

vegan • socialist • atheist • humanist • liberal • FOSSer
programmer • feminist • animal rights activist • pacifist • teetotaller
pelle
Guest
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2012, 09:36:48 PM »

What about games that need to self-update it's binaries frequently?

There are commercial applications that through their installer (in say Ubuntu) installs their own apt configuration to make sure the system automatically update the application just like any other package is expected to do.
Logged
pelle
Guest
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2012, 01:14:07 AM »

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to support Linux in the future, but will it be worth the effort and my time? The jury's still out on that.

As someone who as used Linux almost exclusively since 1996, I say if it is too much work to support Linux, don't. But please release binaries for it anyway. That is how I have played many games in Linux anyway. IIRC all the iD games did that. You had to somehow extract the data files yourself from the Windows version, then replace whatever.exe with the Linux binary.

Of course, ideally, some sort of installer would always be included, or at least an Ubuntu DEB, but I can see how that is too much work for a small company, and I think unsupported Linux support is OK given the current situation.

But I don't get that thing about Linux users not buying games. Where did that come from? I never heard anyone say that (or see any numbers suggest that)? To me, given that 99 % of what I run is free and open source anyway, I feel like I have money to spare to actually buy games, unlike almost everyone I know that play pirated Windows games. Have been buying the Linux games I wanted to play since back in Loki days.

However I am a lot less desperate for Linux games now than only a few years ago. When the first HiB came out I did not hesitate to send them a bundle of $$$ because OMG LINUX SUPPORT, but now I have already bought more Linux games (mostly through the bundles) than I have had the time to play. The unexpectedly good sales for Linux versions seen a few years ago might be difficult to match now. I still think the Linux market is a lot less saturated than Windows, but maybe not so much better (in sales per user) than OSX.
Logged
Oddball
Level 10
*****


David Williamson


View Profile WWW
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2012, 03:37:49 AM »

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to support Linux in the future, but will it be worth the effort and my time? The jury's still out on that.

As someone who as used Linux almost exclusively since 1996, I say if it is too much work to support Linux, don't. But please release binaries for it anyway. That is how I have played many games in Linux anyway.
That would be my thinking too. If I don't support Linux in with future games I'd probably still release a Linux version for free, but totally unsupported.
Logged

Klaim
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2012, 04:05:37 AM »

So the only way to make a game work like minecraft on linux is to have the full game in the user's home directory and let it manage it's own files, right?

Logged

http://www.klaimsden.net | Game : NetRush | Digital Story-Telling Technologies : Art Of Sequence
Dacke
Level 10
*****


I have never been to Woodstock


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2012, 06:25:41 AM »

@pelle: I don't agree with you. In the olden times, most Linux users were usually extreme powerusers. Today we have millions of casual users as well, thanks to Ubuntu. I think that a piece of better advice is to find a nice and helpful Linux user that can help you support Linux for free-ish. Also, as I mentioned before, Canonical will package the game for you for free: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/

@Klaim
No, there are other possible solutions. You can update the game through official update system, without going via the official channels. In Ubuntu you can set up a Personal Package Archive, that people can subscribe to. If you are using auto-updates you probably already have a server, so you can set up your own repository on that server.

It works like this:
1. You set up your server with the game on it
2. People add your server to their "Other repositories"
3. Your game becomes available for download in their software center or package manger
4. All updates you make to your game become instantly available in people's system update manager

(5. I'm not sure if you can force the update as soon as people come online in the game, though)
Logged

vegan • socialist • atheist • humanist • liberal • FOSSer
programmer • feminist • animal rights activist • pacifist • teetotaller
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic