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[crowe]

what if we genetically modified the animals we eat to not feel pain and be born braindead? Would that be cool?

edit: to be clear this is a genuine question, I'm not being sarcastic or anything.

there'd still presumably be a large environmental effect, same as with cows and other animals


braindead animals would still have to eat and so on so they'd have a large carbon footprint either way

[Tumetsu]

I wonder how hard it would be to engineer somekind of "meat bags". Lets take a DNA of chicken for example, tinker with it a bit until we have brainless swollen meat bag with minimized nervous system. Though I imagine that would be more than hard to market since even GM grain is already boycotted by many people

If we want to affect to industry, animal activists should stop antagonizing industry and thinking them as a evil enemy. That usually just harms the cause and manages to reach only minor part of consumers. Instead they should start cooperation and establish unbiased certificate program for ethical meat production with universal standards. When company manages to pass their standards, they get to place the certificate to their products.
In wood industry this worked well and average customers actually bought the certificated wood over a cheaper non-certificated.

Why animal activist organisations are needed for this is that industry can't do it itself. Nobody would believe if company self-asserted that their methods are ethical, even if they really were. But if established animal rights organisation would guarantee it...
Luckily this method of cooperation is getting more and more frequent in environmental issues.

EDIT: Also I think suggesting veganism as a solution for animal suffering is to me kin for suggestions to lower our standards of living to conserve energy and control a climate change. Yeah, it would work and if an individual does it, I think it is in certain sense admirable, but to seriously expect it could be done to whole population is asking too much IMO, at least in foreseeable future.

[TheLastBanana]

If we want to affect to industry, animal activists should stop antagonizing industry and thinking them as a evil enemy. That usually just harms the cause and manages to reach only minor part of consumers. Instead they should start cooperation and establish unbiased certificate program for ethical meat production with universal standards. When company manages to pass their standards, they get to place the certificate to their products.
In wood industry this worked well and average customers actually bought the certificated wood over a cheaper non-certificated.
Also I think suggesting veganism as a solution for animal suffering is to me kin for suggestions to lower our standards of living to conserve energy and control a climate change. Yeah, it would work and if an individual does it, I think it is in certain sense admirable, but to seriously expect it could be done to whole population is asking too much IMO, at least in foreseeable future.

This is exactly what I meant earlier, but phrased a lot better. It's a false dichotomy to say that helping animal rights is either a matter of completely abandoning meat or taking military action against the meat industry. There are ways in between that aren't so extreme and unfeasible on a large scale.

[moi]

what if we genetically modified the animals we eat to not feel pain and be born braindead? Would that be cool?

edit: to be clear this is a genuine question, I'm not being sarcastic or anything.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16972761

[unsilentwill]

what if we genetically modified the animals we eat to not feel pain and be born braindead? Would that be cool?

edit: to be clear this is a genuine question, I'm not being sarcastic or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean

I've got a very simple position on the matter, which is that hurting or killing things (animals, sentient things with nervous systems etc.) is a standard I don't feel comfortable with because it devalues the beauty and potential of life, putting all living things at risk of untimely, violent, painful death for our own benefit.

If it's true that animals need to kill to survive then I guess that's how nature is (survival is where most ethics get fuzzy anyway), but for humans that not actually necessary anymore, and hasn't been for thousands of years? It's not hard to be a vegetarian, and it also means you don't have all these weird double standards and caveats in what you are fine seeing die by your hand and what you aren't.

I'm not sure why I'm here, it's not to argue. Convincing a stranger of something this personal/tied to basic ethics is probably impossible in a online forum. Think my position over I guess.

[moi]

what if we genetically modified the animals we eat to not feel pain and be born braindead? Would that be cool?

edit: to be clear this is a genuine question, I'm not being sarcastic or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean

I've got a very simple position on the matter, which is that hurting or killing things (animals, sentient things with nervous systems etc.) is a standard I don't feel comfortable with because it devalues the beauty and potential of life, putting all living things at risk of untimely, violent, painful death for our own benefit.

If it's true that animals need to kill to survive then I guess that's how nature is (survival is where most ethics get fuzzy anyway), but for humans that not actually necessary anymore, and hasn't been for thousands of years? It's not hard to be a vegetarian, and it also means you don't have all these weird double standards and caveats in what you are fine seeing die by your hand and what you aren't.

I'm not sure why I'm here, it's not to argue. Convincing a stranger of something this personal/tied to basic ethics is probably impossible in a online forum. Think my position over I guess.

Hey bro,
What's up with posting intelligent thought out arguments in an idiot thread?
Is that a new thing?

[allen]

hurting or killing things (animals, sentient things with nervous systems etc.) is a standard I don't feel comfortable with because it devalues the beauty and potential of life

I don't hold such disgusting beasts to the same status you do. Of course I don't think they should be treated as awful as some of those videos portray. But still, it's just a cow. Nothing is lost by killing it, nothing important anyways. What potential does the cow have? It can shit, it can eat, it can sleep. Or it can raise a calf that will also shit, eat, and sleep. Not very useful and certainly not beautiful.

[DavidCaruso]

It's not hard to be a vegetarian, and it also means you don't have all these weird double standards and caveats in what you are fine seeing die by your hand and what you aren't.

I think most people's standard is basically "if it's cute then it's not okay, but if it's ugly and/or it tastes good then go for it." (Not passing any moral judgment on this, just saying that this is what it seems to come down to -- not that I particularly like the idea of meat-eating as a deadly sin and veganism as penance/repentance, either.)

[phubans]

Some of the posts in this thread arguing against vegetarianism are just downright stupid, uneducated, and ignorant. It's funny how much you'll tell yourself something about "facts" and how things are just to rationalize what ultimately boils down as a lack of willpower and outright laziness that may as well denote an inferiority of character.

Simply put, our practices for eating animals is downright cruel, and I don't want to contribute to that industry. I'm not like the stupid fucks who think dropping a piece of paper in a ballot every 4 years brings change; my change comes from my actions and choices. Don't try and tell me that my lifestyle doesn't make a difference, because you're an idiot if you believe anything to the contrary, you nihilistic, self-absorbed, ignorant fuck.

Omnivores represent the majority, yet they still bitch and complain over lifestyle choices others make that somehow threaten them on some level. Do you think eating meat makes you more of a man? I'd gladly disprove all notions of your perceived masculinity by grinding your face into the pavement with my bare hands. Truth is, you're a fat, lazy, ignorant coward and byproduct of a western world that industrializes the slaughter of millions of animals, half of which is gone to waste, the other half makes it to the table of your finest gluttons and pickiest little bitches who take a bite and throw the rest away.

You can't even see that your selfish, deluded, and uneducated nature is exactly what's destroying the planet that we all live on. But fuck it, your species deserves extinction. You'd rather cling proudly to your outdated ideals and obsolete behaviors that no longer mesh with a harmonious existence in your universe. You'll keep using fossil fuels, you'll keep eating meat from factory farms, and you'll keep waiting for others to save you from your horrible choices because you were too spineless, too stupid, and too fucking lazy to do anything about it yourself. You disgust me.

[kummerspeck]

Grinding people's faces into pavement is pretty disgusting too.
i generally agree with you though

[Tumetsu]

Relating to my earlier post I might add that one could argue that by changing to vegan diet on animal treatment basis might be almost useless when it comes to social change. Instead one should cut down their meat use and/or favor more ethical meat products to give them competitive edge over traditional products. It is also choice which I believe many many people who aren't willing to commit themselves to full veganism could choose voluntarily; and so be far more effective than trying to convert people to full vegans or antagonizing non-vegans. Right now those who don't buy meat effectively wash their hands off the issue but at the same time drop themselves out of the system and therefore lose the power to affect to it. After all number of vegans is so small that they could cause much changes to large meat industry.

I'm not saying that vegans should start eating meat or that veganism is a bad choice, just that it probably isn't most effective device to create the wanted social change. Instead a middle road should be found; one which a major part of population can assume.

[allen]

damn phubans is mad.

Don't try and tell me that my lifestyle doesn't make a difference

but they don't make a difference? I don't see how you could argue this. you really think you not eating meat has any impact on the treatment of animals? haha, and you have the balls to call me self-absorbed.

I also heard being angry and stressed out all the time shortens your life span. maybe you should look into that.

You can't even see that your selfish, deluded, and uneducated nature is exactly what's destroying the planet that we all live on.

you give humanity too much credit, and the Earth too little.

Do you think eating meat makes you more of a man?

yes that is clearly the only reason anyone ever eats meat.

I don't know how to respond to your post, it sounds like it was written by a twelve year old who really likes his pretty precious animals and is upset that some people eat them.

[weasello]

I think it is terrible, the treatment animals get, cruelty, etc... One of the worst experiences of my food-related-life was having to prep a turkey. Eating meat makes me feel terribly guilty.

That said, it is very delicious and I am lazy. I try not to think about the animal while I chomp on it. I am a terrible person that eats meat, and I am okay with that (for now).

Maybe some point in my life I can make a change, maybe I won't. But at least I know that I'm a meat-eating asshole. I understand the vegan perspective, and I get why people would be upset.

But I guess everyone else in this thread is totally correct and fine with themselves.

[allen]

I know the treatment of animals is pretty cruel, but getting so emotional and angry about it just clouds your judgment.

there's no reason for paul to get so angry and call people self-absorbed, ignorant, lazy, and faggots in the middle of an honest discussion.

take that childish attitude elsewhere, it doesn't belong here.

[phubans]

What the fuck did you just fucking say, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with getting first on a post on the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking fingers from typing. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it.