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[Paul Eres]

to me all of the choices in this thread are bad (of the ones i played) except for super metroid which was okay

anyway my picks for good level designs (in rough order of release year):

- donkey kong
- super mario bros. 1
- castlevania 1
- life force
- ninja gaiden 2
- super c
- gunstar heroes
- gradius 5
- catherine

[Noah!]

- gunstar heroes

Recently I've been thinking about Treasure, and their games in general, and the thing that stuck out to me is that they are exceptionally good at what I like to call "scenario design" (though there's probably a legitimate phrase for this). Like, they're really good at concocting a bunch of little unexpected scenarios to throw the player into. Y'know, things like the recap Timeron fight in stage 6, or the pyramid-sliding segment in Pink's level. It's a very strange and somewhat surreal method of level design, and kind of evokes images of a child gleefully screaming "...and then THIS will happen! ...and then THIS will happen!"

I guess I don't know where I stand on this sort of design. While I love the general idea of the "anything can happen" design, and the approach has influenced my own stuff a fair amount, I just don't think it was done very well in Gunstar. Maybe it's just the paradigm I'm stuck in, but when I think of level design, I think of those articles talking about how every platform has a purpose and stuff. And in Gunstar, most of the platforming segments were just the glue to get you to the next scenario, and just doesn't stand up when compared to the whole "fighting a bodybuilder while standing on the wings of a copterplane that is hurtling through the sky" thing.

Which I guess is more memorable than having a lovingly-crafted sequence of 4-block jumps in its place, but whatever.

[Paul Eres]

i think those types of articles tend to be too theoretical and detached from the actual play experience. to me good level design is maintaining a high level of intensity (which is mainly challenge and tension) while avoiding the problems of boredom (repetitiveness) or having too much unfairness (random deaths that you couldn't avoid without knowing about something ahead of time). i don't care whether everything fits into an integrated whole and everything has a purpose, that may matter for aesthetics for those few players looking for those things but they don't matter to most players

so to me good level design = intensity - imbalance - repetition

another way to put "intensity" (and i think konjak once put it this way in one of his design vids) is that a good level makes it so that a player almost dies several times, but barely lives by the skin of their teeth -- e.g. beating a boss when one more hit would have killed you too

as a side note, i don't think gunstar heroes had good level design on easy or normal difficulties, only on the hardest difficulty

[s_l_m]

Did anyone here play the Astro Boy game that Treasure did for the GBA? Prime example of level design, linear enough to keep the story moving, but branching enough to have enough secrets to warrant multiple play throughs. Not to mention a gorgeous representation of the Tezuka universe.

[sublinimal]

-Metroidvanias have generally appealing level design. They are the few games that give me a genuine sense of exploration/discovery. I love the "layered" progression and reusability of areas.

-The Half-Life series and both Portals. I have to admit Valve has a consistently solid grasp of level design. Things like pacing, immersive environments, teaching mechanics using the level design itself, and integrating storytelling into the gameplay. The developer commentaries reaffirm my impression that they're obsessed about design.

-Jetpack. Yeah, that DOS game. I still keep making levels for it now and then, and it's stunning how much you can get out of the simple mechanics. Although I guess I'm not really talking about how good the pre-made levels are, but rather about how the limitations make it an ideal environment for designing levels.

[JobLeonard]

Just played through Psychonauts again after getting free Steam keys with the Humble Bundle (I should have the DVD version somewhere). It's as awesome as I remember. Every level is unique in this game!

[C.A. Sinner]

Did anyone here play the Astro Boy game that Treasure did for the GBA? Prime example of level design, linear enough to keep the story moving, but branching enough to have enough secrets to warrant multiple play throughs. Not to mention a gorgeous representation of the Tezuka universe.

Treasure are really good at jam packing their levels with content. Sin & Punishment 2 just throws bosses and minibosses at you like there's no tomorrow.

[Paul Eres]

ya i hate when i get to a new level and it has the exact same elements as the last level (same enemies, same tiles, same everything, just rearranged slightly differently). although it kind of worked for "the lost levels" aka the japanese super mario bros. 2

[Graham.]

FF7, just for the unique cinematic angles. Right? The camera had to be in a specially chosen fixed position for each segment of any area because the backgrounds were hand drawn. It blew me away how natural it felt to navigate the first time I played through; I felt like a director.

Interesting. One of my problems with FF7 was that some areas were just hopeless to navigate. Not releasing the d-pad while traveling between screens often resulted in going back to the previous one. The ninja girls town comes to mind. Very frustrating!

Yeah it wasn't perfect. FF7 plays like a dream that just didn't quite get there. It's filled with stuff like that. Thank God for XIII right? No content, no problems.

[Poyer]

I recently re-played Overlord, I remember it being a silly and fun game, but playing it now the design of it really stands out, especially the level design.

Visually every place is distinct but whats really great about the level design is it's clarity. The game has no maps at all, not even a mini-map. It doesn't need them because the level are very well put together, there is very little confusion about where you haven't been or need to go and there's a clear sense of progression within the levels as well because you discover new paths and open of back-doors as you go along a lot of them.

It becomes especially clear just how good this was if you ever try to play Overlord 2. I am still trying to get through that one... its really awful.

[Hplus]

I'm still learning about level design, but I just finished an analysis on Super Mario Bros, and I was pretty impressed with what I found.

I'm looking at Castlevania now, and am planning on doing an analysis of it as well. I haven't played it before now, and picked it because it gets a lot of pretty consistent praise for its level design. I was hoping, though, that people who think it stands out could let me know what about it makes it so noteworthy.

[C.A. Sinner]

The game has no maps at all, not even a mini-map.

Heh I didn't even notice that while playing. A testament to how good the levels are I guess.

[Faust06]

FF7, just for the unique cinematic angles. Right? The camera had to be in a specially chosen fixed position for each segment of any area because the backgrounds were hand drawn. It blew me away how natural it felt to navigate the first time I played through; I felt like a director.

That's one of the charms of psx rpgs that I really miss, along with the pre-rendered backgrounds. The layout is more appealing than full-3d, there's an atmosphere to it. They should continue to take advantage of the photographic design.

I'm in agreement with Super Metroid (and Prime), Contra, Spelunky, the Legend of Zelda, Mario 64, and the Donkey Kong Country games. All well-crafted. Depending on the nature of the game, however, I'll dock points if replay-value is too low.

[tha_Chiller]

N+ (also known as The N game) the level design whooped my ass

Honorable mentions to "PDA Games" from "Alien Hominid"

[JMStark]

Any of the Deadly Rooms of Death (DROD) games made after King Dugan's Dungeon have some really tight, clever layouts. The designers knew how to really take a few game play elements and explore their potential to the fullest. The level design is blended with puzzle design in a way I have not seen anywhere else.