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[chrishughes2d]

What is this thread about?

8 July 2012: Episode 2 published and looking for feedback.
19 June 2012: Exploring ideas for expanding on the rotation mechanic for episode 2.
28 May 2012: Created thread for feedback on episode 1 gameplay.


Hey folks,

I'm new to TigSource. I've previously spent a lot of time in XNA community and built a few modest titles on the XBLIG platform, but for this project I wanted to target the browser and so turned to Flash.

This game is called Spin Spin. It is a blend of VVVVVV and And Yet It Moves, but truthfully I only discovered And Yet It Moves after building 90% of Spin Spin and have still not played it. VVVVVV was the real inspiration, and a strong one at that.



I'm going down the path of episodic content. I've basically completed episode 1, and am looking for general feedback on how to improve all aspects of the game for future episodes. Graphics, music, sounds, story, concept, gameplay... bring it!

I'm open to updating episode 1 as well, to address balancing issues, etc. I intentionally kept this episode simple to prove whether the core mechanic is fun, so you will notice it is pretty bare boned.

You can play it here:
http://www.spinsp.in/episode-1.htm

One issue that I know exists is that I embedded the music in the SWF file so the game takes a while to load and doesn't have a loading screen. Please be patient. Haven't gotten around to fixing that yet.

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback!

FYI, I'm in Australia so apologies in advance if I take a while to respond to comments in this thread.

[porousnapkin]

I enjoyed this a lot. I got through it with minimal frustration but enough challenge to be satisfying. I think you got the difficulty just right. The puzzles were fun.

I have some suggestions for the gameplay. The movement feels very stiff. I think you should add some acceleration and deceleration to both the ground movement and the falling movement.

I did eventually understand what the mechanics were for when you can and can't do mid-air world rotations, but it's not something that's clear when you're first beginning. I think you could fix this with a minor graphical tell that the player has his world rotation ability. It could be something like the color of his eyes changing or a soft particle glow. The player would be able to easily see when they gain their ability to rotate. I think you should also add a sound effect for when a world rotate fails. That way the player is receiving feedback every time he presses the button. There were a few times at first when I was hitting it midair and thought it wasn't acknowledging my presses.

This is minor, but I also think you should put the controls in the game rather than in the website. You could just have text in the first room on the background telling the player the controls.

Those are minor issues on the whole, and I would definitely play another episode if one came out. Good job!

[Udderdude]

I did eventually understand what the mechanics were for when you can and can't do mid-air world rotations, but it's not something that's clear when you're first beginning. I think you could fix this with a minor graphical tell that the player has his world rotation ability.

Definitely agree with this, and I didn't even figure it out eventually.  Give the player more feedback!

[Xion]

I agree with all of the above. I didn't read the text and just jumped right into the game, and I didn't even realize I could move left and right at first, which made things difficult to say the least. Then I didn't understand the rotation mechanics and thought I had to be standing on the ground to spin, which once more gave rise to difficulties.

I would also have liked to have the controls switched around - A and D (or A and S) to rotate and the arrow keys to move around, since I'm used to moving with the arrow keys, but that's just personal preference and doesn't really hurt the game, just took a little getting used to.

Aside from those things, I'd agree the level of challenge felt good, and I enjoyed the game once I figured out and adjusted to the controls and rotation mechanics.

[IndieGamesDig]

Yeah, you need let people know when you can and cannot spin the screen. And is there a way to get to the perpendicular arm of the T-shaped room with the spike-covered walls?

[chrishughes2d]

Thanks folks. I'll definitely add some control hints and a bit of acceleration to the character's movement.

In future episodes I want to have an item you can collect when falling to restore your spin if you've already used it. So showing when you can spin is a champion idea. I'll add that as well.

I appreciate the feedback. And glad to hear some of you have enjoyed the game once you've worked through the ambiguity of the controls.

As for the T-shaped room:

*** SPOILER WARNING ***
The first time you enter that room you will have already used your spin and you just have to fall through. You need to find a way to fall from the other direction without having used your spin, so you can use it to rotate into the T.

Cheers,
Chris

[IndieGamesDig]

Maybe make Spin's eyes blue or something when he's out of spins, and make them green when he can still spin. Good puzzles, I got past that part btw, but now stuck somewhere else 

[chrishughes2d]

Hi folks,

I've posted an update with the following changes:
* Music is now loaded dynamically, so the game should start up much quicker than before
* Eyes change from green to red when you can't spin

Regarding stiff controls, how much of an issue is that? Much of the level design relies on precision bouncing from wall to wall at 45 degree angles and going from 0 to full speed instantly. I'm a bit worried removing the stiffness will make the controls feel imprecise.

I'm notoriously poor at judging stiffness/floatiness of controls, so I'd love to hear more opinions on this (specifically how it relates to the sort of controls/puzzles in this game). In my last 2 projects I preserved the horizontal velocity when floating through the air because I convinced myself it was more realistic - and players hated it.

Cheers,
Chris

[Medevenx]

Didn't notice that the eyes change, I didn't even know you can rotate the screen when you were falling out of simple fall (not rotating the screen to fall) until later where you are actually required to do that. I love the idea and if you want a pixel artist I'll be glad to help.

Also, you CAN get the princess through the other way. I just did it lol and it was very fun after knowing how to get to her the gamer's way

[Kapser]

At first I was a bit confused too as some of the first room gave the impression that changing screen would allow you to re-rotate, but quickly figured it out (which actually was the most logic way)

Maybe some acceleration could help but something extremely subtle since as you said, just like VVVVVV this is the static type of responsiveness you need. I agree it looks a bit stiff, but maybe just working a little bit on the animations would make a better job than changing the physics.

And I agree the difficulty was fine and the chapter has just the right lenght. So maybe you'll need some sort of break/reward/map between each chapter and with proper ingredients I could probably kept playing this one for a while.

Always loved gravity flipping since I saw it in Battle of Olympus on the NES, and VVVVVV is definately my favorite use of this mechanics so that was a right choice for inspiration.

[Claw]

Really enjoyed this.

I took a minute to work out what the controls were but after that it was fun. Ended up finishing the game even though I only had a go for a quick look (I'm in work and really shouldn't be playing games ). Difficulty was spot on, reminded me of VVVVVVV in a good way. Level/puzzle design was well thought out - some had me baffled for a minute until that great moment of realisation kicks in

I don't think acceleration is needed for controls, might make it look a little smoother but the rigid nature of the player's speed made pulling off difficult manoeuvres easier and felt natural. I think adding a slowdown and speed up time would detract from this and make it a lot harder.

[chrishughes2d]

Here is a version with a small amount of floatiness:
http://www.spinsp.in/episode-1-accelerate-4.htm

And for comparison purposes, here is the current (stiff) version:
http://www.spinsp.in/episode-1.htm

I'd love to hear from anyone who has spent a few minutes with both.

[jlango]

Claw's comments took the words out of my mouth. Great concept, challenging, fun puzzles, and the eye effect was really helpful too. Reminded me of VVVVVV in a good way.

I was a little confused at the beginning, even a little sign that says WASD <-, -> would be helpful as it took me a second to realize I could move the little guy around.

[chrishughes2d]

The main build now guides the player through the first few rooms. Check it out and let me know whether it solves the confusion about the controls. As before, it is here:
http://www.spinsp.in/episode-1.htm (you might need to refresh your browser)

I haven't put floatiness into the main build yet, but if anyone wants to try out a floatier build and let me know their thoughts I'd really appreciate it:
http://www.spinsp.in/episode-1-accelerate-4.htm

Once the floatiness is put to bed, hopefully episode 1 should be close to cooked!

Thanks everyone for their awesome feedback! 

[chrishughes2d]

I've started work on episode 2 now, and wondering whether anyone who has played episode 1 (http://www.spinsp.in/episode-1.htm) has ideas on evolving the rotation mechanic for new episodes.

So far I've made the following engine updates:

• Blocks that move with gravity
• Platforms that move with gravity when rotated vertically, but hover when horizontal
• Spiky poles that don't rotate with the room, so rotating the room moves them in and out of the way

The key thing with all of these is that the player is in control of all movement. I'm avoiding things like platforms that move automatically from side to side, because I don't want the player to have to wait for the right timing.

Thoughts?