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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesDark Souls and Bloodborne
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Author Topic: Dark Souls and Bloodborne  (Read 526830 times)
Raptor85
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« Reply #1640 on: January 28, 2013, 02:54:28 PM »

if you're hitting people with pursuers they deserve to be hit, that spell is hilariously easy to dodge, probably even easier than WOTG, i have it on one of my kitty cov chars though, it's good for a lot of the absolute noobs in the forest trying to gank, since you can't really dodge it if your'e fatrollin in giants armor (or my personal favorite, the turtles who decide it a good idea to block magic with their grass crest shield)

in a real 1v1 situation though pursuers is a crap spell on it's own, you won't kill ANYONE who knows how to play with that spell...which requires the epic "dodge" maneuver of "step backwards a few steps, or move behind something" to dodge it. (you can also roll through it if you're fastroll and get it to hit the ground, and most people who cast it just sit there and watch you so it's basicly a free kill when people do that)

personally i've never really had issue with any of the faith or sorc spells in pvp, they're all super easy to dodge, especially the dark magic...even with high dex it has enough of a tell to sideroll or sidestep and if they're casting locked (most mages do) you can just walk up calmly and kill them after the cast.  Honestly for sorc i'd say the best spell is crystal magic weapon by far, then using crystal homing soulmass to support it and keep their stamina down from dodging, best pvp spells in game though i'd have a tough time choosing

* crystal magic weapon/sunlight blade/and darkmoon blade are all kinda tied for first, CMW has the advantage of being sorc so you have much better support spells alongside it, where slb and dmb have higher damage output though IMHO faith spells for the most part are trash. (in pvp of course)
* second to those i'd say is pyro's "power within", followed by the "great fireball" and "great chaos fireball", which are absolutely amazing in the right hands in pvp (the blast damage on them is amazing, if you unlock your view you can aim at the end of someone's dodge and catch them in the blast, the chaos one since it leaves lava will do massive damage and stun as well)

overall i'd say though pyro is by far the strongest casting class with all the best spells in the game pvp, while sorc and faith have a few nice spells each pyro needs absolutely no point investment (so your character himself is a lot stronger) plus nearly every pyro spell is actualy USEFUL, where the faith and sorc spells are all dead simple to dodge.  Yeah, spell spamming will work against new players and scrubs, but you're going to get mauled by anyone who knows what they're doing.
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« Reply #1641 on: January 28, 2013, 03:52:36 PM »

if you're hitting people with pursuers they deserve to be hit, that spell is hilariously easy to dodge, probably even easier than WOTG, i have it on one of my kitty cov chars though, it's good for a lot of the absolute noobs in the forest trying to gank, since you can't really dodge it if your'e fatrollin in giants armor (or my personal favorite, the turtles who decide it a good idea to block magic with their grass crest shield)
lag tho
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« Reply #1642 on: January 28, 2013, 04:11:17 PM »

yeah

most of these spells are useless in PvP as you say, if both people have rock-hard zero latency connections.  Lan maybe?

Otherwise you're getting blasted by 2000 damage crystal soul spears when you're visually safe behind a wall, or around a corner.  Sad
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« Reply #1643 on: January 28, 2013, 04:13:49 PM »

Yeah in a perfect world Pursuers and Dark Bead and pretty much everything would be easy to dodge in the hands of a capable player. The problem is the lag causing the visual timing of the attack to be thrown off in one direction or another, or the attack 'catching' (This happens with normal attacks too, an example of this would be if you see your opponent reeling up for combustion and roll away in reaction, you may complete the roll but you will take damage as if you hadn't reacted).

And then there's the battles where you're both warping around and taking damage five seconds after the hit connects, usually ended by an across-the-room backstab Facepalm

Oh man Ben_Hurr, don't even bring up Soul Spear, in PvP you HAVE to roll past/through it. The spear may be ten feet away visually, but it will hit you. It will.
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« Reply #1644 on: January 28, 2013, 04:35:24 PM »

hmm, i have a pretty crappy internet connection but i don't really have that much issue with lag in pvp...maybe 1/40 or so matches, yeah, i get that occasional lagstab or phantom range on weapons like the pike, but in normal playing I rarely have enough lag to even worry about it.  It's annoying when it happens, yeah, but it's rare enough to keep the game fun. Maybe it varies between system though, I'm on ps3 myself, i watch twitch.tv a lot and it seems most of the PC players have quite a few more laggy matches than I see, though that could be due to the fact that they're streaming at the time also.

If you're getting blasted from around corners and such regularly that sounds like you have a severe connection problem in game though, or that for some reason you're getting matched more with people overseas than you are locally.  I've only ever had lag that bad in a match once or twice, so yeah it happens but it shouldn't be a regular occurance.
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« Reply #1645 on: January 28, 2013, 04:52:10 PM »

I wonder how a game with the same exact action/fighting mecanics than Dark Souls would be if it was massively multiplayer.

You know, with the whole community having to fight the game. And die. Again.
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« Reply #1646 on: January 28, 2013, 05:20:43 PM »

^Only cheaters and lagswitchers would get to the end.
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« Reply #1647 on: January 28, 2013, 05:40:33 PM »

I wonder how a game with the same exact action/fighting mecanics than Dark Souls would be if it was massively multiplayer.

You know, with the whole community having to fight the game. And die. Again.

I don't think it would work out too well. Even for wow-clones, there's huge technical limitations which is one of the reasons why the combat doesn't tend to be very "dynamic", and mostly consists of pressing buttons. The only way it would work is if combat was slowed down by quite a bit.

However it would certainly be interesting seeing how people react to a dark-souls difficulty MMO, compared to the status quo of not standing in the fire and pressing a button or two when the tank's health is below 50%.
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« Reply #1648 on: January 28, 2013, 06:54:29 PM »

there's plenty of existing real-time fighting mmo's around, so i don't see why it's "impossible"....it's not exactly Virtual Fighter depth to the combat and where hits land.

I also find it a little funny that grindfests with not-very-interactive combat are all called "wow clones" now when UO (though almost completely without the grind) and Everquest (with probably more grind) did it and popularized that kind of control scheme before WoW Tongue

"dark souls difficulty" is a funny phrase too, seeing as most MMO's and indeed a lot of games 90's through early 2000's were actually quite a bit harder than dark souls (which really isn't THAT hard of a game). I think people just forget how @#%^@^ hard games used to be before the generation of "hand holding" in games to ensure every player eventually makes it to the end to see all their hard made content, if anything dark souls was a nice kickback and refresher of how games were before all this casual nonsense.
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« Reply #1649 on: January 28, 2013, 07:27:46 PM »

I call them wow-clones because almost every MMORPG that has come out after wow has had higherups who wanted it to be the wow-killer, it's only natural that they should be referred to as wow clones.

I do agree that dark souls difficulty is a silly phrase, but keep in mind that it's a relative comparison to games out right now, not a comparison against games made 10 years ago. The game honestly isn't that hard at all, it's just challenging. I just think it would be amazing to witness the level of culture shock that your average MMORPG player would go through in the transition to a game where they actually die when they're shitty players.
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« Reply #1650 on: January 28, 2013, 07:45:43 PM »

I'm stuck on Anor Londo after those weird white gargoyles, can't get pass the 2 "sword archer" guys... can't get close to them without getting hit and falling...

Any tips?
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« Reply #1651 on: January 28, 2013, 07:58:27 PM »

run really fast and hope for the best
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Raptor85
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« Reply #1652 on: January 28, 2013, 08:43:25 PM »

I'm stuck on Anor Londo after those weird white gargoyles, can't get pass the 2 "sword archer" guys... can't get close to them without getting hit and falling...

Any tips?
A few different tactics

1. The boring (but easiest, and guaranteed for a new player)
   * Equip a long range bow, preferrably pharis's black bow for it's range boost, and lots of poison arrows, Snipe them from afar, even though the arrows wont cause damage they'll still get poisoned, and die eventually. This is boring and takes forever so i don't really recommend it, but if you can't get past using the other methods this is pretty much guaranteed to work.
2. The stealthy (requires either sorc or fog ring from forest pvp)
   * either use the sorcery hidden body or the fog ring, and no metal armor (or use the ring from sens that makes you quiet), and you can get all the way up to the one on the right before he notices you, he'll swap to his sword. Block first hit, parry second, push him off ledge, guaranteed kill. (force also works if faith, you can also soul spear from the middle while still invisible.)
3. the way you do it once you learn the game.
   * just run up the middle without blocking, they won't hit you, run at the one on the right rolling under each arrow, then kill him.  This is the fastest and still pretty easy way to do it, all it takes is good timing to roll under the arrows.
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« Reply #1653 on: January 28, 2013, 09:50:12 PM »

I'm stuck on Anor Londo after those weird white gargoyles, can't get pass the 2 "sword archer" guys... can't get close to them without getting hit and falling...

Any tips?
I know the situation you are in. I have questioned myself many times whether it is acceptable action-design or not. I mean if the game has a focus on acrobatic action then no problem but here you usually don't expect it to be aesthetic to run on thinnest edges and get attacked.

It's borderline acceptable design but there is a way to replicate the success. Just run towards the right guy on the building and block his attacks when you come close enough. Wait a little until he gets in your reach and attack him. The remaining enemies on the left side are less problematic.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:55:38 PM by J-Snake » Logged

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« Reply #1654 on: January 29, 2013, 12:06:37 AM »

The thing is, with Dark Souls it usually seems cheap at first, but there's always a way to get past. With Anor Londo, you can always cheese the archers if you can't run past them, it just takes some critical thinking skills. It's designed to hurt players who charge through without thinking of what they will do next.
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« Reply #1655 on: January 29, 2013, 12:10:29 AM »

Dark Souls is modern Castlevania, that's how I usually sell it to retro gamers.
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« Reply #1656 on: January 29, 2013, 12:18:07 AM »

With Anor Londo, you can always cheese the archers
Using bow sucks though.
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« Reply #1657 on: January 29, 2013, 12:20:25 AM »

With Anor Londo, you can always cheese the archers
Using bow sucks though.

But it's basically how it's intended to be used. Just because it's not an enjoyable weapon to use (stiff, no way to know if the arrow hit, really needed a buff) doesn't mean you aren't supposed to use it.
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« Reply #1658 on: January 29, 2013, 08:21:31 AM »

With Anor Londo, you can always cheese the archers
Using bow sucks though.

But it's basically how it's intended to be used. Just because it's not an enjoyable weapon to use (stiff, no way to know if the arrow hit, really needed a buff) doesn't mean you aren't supposed to use it.
But it's still boring, and only useful in a small handful of situations.  Also depending on the type of character you're going for, it's a total waste of stat points too.

I believe the solution here would be to just make bows more enticing to play with.

----

This actually reminds me of an old interview with the lead designer, where he was talking about the Anor Londo archers and wondered why nobody thought to use poison arrows on them;

a. because you'd die of old age before you kill them
b. nobody(figuratively) has poison arrows, or poison attacks on them at all for the above reason
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« Reply #1659 on: January 29, 2013, 08:51:41 AM »

the bow is useful for pulling enemies
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