next »

[melos]

Bloodborne is really responsive, which is nice in combat - but I feel like that strips a bit away from the experience of going through these mansions and keeps and basalt column passes. DS1's weightiness made walking really memorable. I know the focus of these games is the fighting, though - just a side note.

But yeah, DS1 is less responsive than DS2, less responsive than BB. Though their combat balances out that in a way where the responsiveness level for each is fine. DeS feels like...DS2, but slightly worse for some reason (in terms of movement). Like I feel DeS is more buttery. anyways.

---

BB felt short and sweet...not overstaying its welcome. The city areas conveyed a bit of a city feel, which was cool. I wish they had done more with the "tree-branch" areas in the game -


Like it was neat  how Old Yharnam incorporates itself into kind of a loop with Yahar'gul, and how Yahar'gul ties into Cathedral Ward's cliff area (to the right of Grand Cathedral). I liked how Cathedral Ward progressed.

I wish that - the dead end in Church of the Good Chalice (blood starved beast place) had led back to somewhere in Charnel Lane or Forbidden Woods - and that the paths to Charnel Lane didn't have to rely on a long cave, and that the path from Forbidden Woods to the clinic didn't have to rely on a long underground cave (though the progression WAS neat - I just mean when we can stay above ground for these things it is neat. Like the entire Forbidden Woods area is a cool way to reach Byrgenwerth - but why not have Forbidden Woods act like Cathedral Ward, and connect to Charnel Lane and Church of Good Chalice as well? or where you warp into Lecture Building from after The One Reborn)

That being said, their one-time use of a completely surreal area change: i.e. entering Lecture Building was very cool, as was it taking you to different (and viewpoint-connected) parts in the Nightmare of Mensis - you can see Margo's Keep from Nightmare Frontier, and that is cool! I wish there was more to Amygdala's building, and that we got to see what was in that sea of clouds below)

[s0]

Bloodborne is really responsive, which is nice in combat - but I feel like that strips a bit away from the experience of going through these mansions and keeps and basalt column passes. DS1's weightiness made walking really memorable. I know the focus of these games is the fighting, though - just a side note.

thats true but bloodborne was meant to be a bit different. they basically went "what if we took a souls game and made it fast?". And it really really works. Bloodborne actually changed my mind about Souls design. I used to think the slowness and defense focus were integral. apparently not!

That being said, their one-time use of a completely surreal area change: i.e. entering Lecture Building was very cool, as was it taking you to different (and viewpoint-connected) parts in the Nightmar of Mensis - you can see Margo's Keep from Nightmare Frontier, and that is cool! I wish there was more to Amygdala's building, and that we got to see what was in that sea of clouds below)

thats how demons souls works fyi (demon's also has probably the best and tightest level design of any of these games).

btw i think i may actually prefer more complex individual levels like in DeS and BB over the dks1 metroidvania world, oops

[J-Snake]

thats true but bloodborne was meant to be a bit different. they basically went "what if we took a souls game and made it fast?". And it really really works. Bloodborne actually changed my mind about Souls design. I used to think the slowness and defense focus were integral. apparently not!

Of course not, it is the speed of your moves in relation to the speed of your opponent which determines that balance, as long as combat happens within human readable speeds. Tekken is overall even faster but works great because of that balance, for example. Many people also have the misconception that an action focused metroidvania will dumb down to a shooty or mindless hack and slash fest. That's only the case if the developer has no sense for balance and combat depth, like some guys working for Nintendo.

[s0]

Oh of course it's possible to make a mechanically sound fast action game, but I guess I also meant in terms of "gamefeel" or whatever you call it, not just raw mechanics. For instance, Resident Evil 4 is a very good game (maybe even a great one) but it doesn't "feel" like the older RE games at all despite some mechanical similarities. Bloodborne changed and removed things that I thought were extremely important to the Souls "feel" (or I guess you could say identity), but it turns out it still "feels" very Souls-like.

Of course the comparison is a bit unfair because the mechanics changes in RE4 were much more drastic, but you the get the point

[J-Snake]

You are giving "feel" too much credit. It is something a well balanced game creates by itself.

Tekkens moves have a sense of balance, each action speed-weighted to its purpose. If you put a dark souls skin over Tekken you
will "feel" the "souls-like" in it aswell.

[DJFloppyFish]

I know what he means though. One major appeal of souls combat has been how it is not twitchy and more slow and thoughtful. I suck at fast paced action games, but a light build in souls has always been doable for me. Bloodborne relies a lot more on reflexes, but it manages to keep the focus on strategy. It's basic design shit, and it makes sense that it works as well as it does, but I couldn't have predicted it would be THIS good. I think the new method of dodging really helps things, you can set up your counter attacks way faster with it and it is kinda the dodge mechanic I always wanted in a Souls game.

[s0]

btw am i the only one who thinks bloodborne isn't really a "horror" game? like, sure it has themes and imagery from horror films and literature and it's dark and spoopy but i dont feel like it's trying to scare you or anything. it's not really so called "psychological" horror either.

[Rat Casket]

id say its a horror game for sure. so much mumbling and weird voices everywhere. its spooky.

[battlerager]

I sometimes had to stop playing because the atmosphere and constant tension were really doing a number on me 

[DJFloppyFish]

shit's a lot less scary when you know you can reliably stunlock and parry everything to death. i'd say its about as much as a horror game as RE4, in that you're not scared by specific things so much as you are unnerved by the whole thing.

[battlerager]

shit's a lot less scary when you know you can reliably stunlock and parry everything to death. i'd say its about as much as a horror game as RE4, in that you're not scared by specific things so much as you are unnerved by the whole thing.

Sure, it gets less scary as you get more familiar with it - but that's just a huge part of how horror works. It's the fear of the unknown!

[DJFloppyFish]

yea, that is true. i must admit when i see a new enemy type, i still crap myself a tiny bit lol

[s0]

Hmmm i guess for me it has to have actual scares to be horror (not necessarily junp scares). it has to try to creep you out in some way. and bloodborne doesnt really do that. its just a dark game. im squeamish about (my above definition of) horror and i had no problems playing it. ill concede that its creepier than the souls games tho.

[DJFloppyFish]

its amazing how theyre able to accurately recreate pvp matchs against sorcerers with logarius  

screw this guy

edit: okay, getting the hang of it. starting to really dig it

edit: NEVERMIND WTF IS THIS

edit: that sword that makes a million swords might be the cheapiest thing I've ever seen...

[Rat Casket]

maybe i am just poisoned by bloodborne

but dark souls 2 is worse than i remember

god damn you cant do anything in this game. youre so slow and clunky.

[DJFloppyFish]

no you're not just poisoned, the clunk is real

[DJFloppyFish]

how the hell do people die on the shadows of yharnam with a summon 

[s0]

haha yeah that was one of the easiest bosses in the game. im glad this game doesnt have  that many multi enemy bosses btw, shit was seriously getting old in dks2. im also glad they cut down on falling deaths and "platforming" for similar reasons. im ALSO glad there are just 2 horde boss fights (im aware of) and theyre actually pretty good. quality over quantity, folks.

btw in the dark souls 2 design works interview tanimura is like "we wanted to make a larger game than dark souls 1". why???? dks1, as good as it is, already had some underdeveloped content. this game industry mentality that sequels always have to be bigger is steupid as hell.

[J-Snake]

Of course the comparison is a bit unfair because the mechanics changes in RE4 were much more drastic, but you the get the point

btw. In case you want to hear my opinion on that. RE4 is different because it is forcing an orthogonal concept. It is a streamlined flow instead of tight scoped exploration. Bloodborn however just works on existing elements. For example, I don't think I am the only one who sees that dodging wasn't up to its potential in DS.

[melos]

the movement works against experiencing the architecture in BB i think.  i feel like slow, more human-like pacing thruogh an environment works better for human-made architecture, since it is a bit closer to walking.... but yes the combat in BB works very well.

DS2 was nice. it's a bit faster than DS actually, i think there might be less delay in walk to run? and there's less weightiness, for better and worse.