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September 19, 2014, 01:53:31 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesDark Souls and Dark Souls II
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Author Topic: Dark Souls and Dark Souls II  (Read 205706 times)
phubans
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« Reply #1280 on: December 10, 2012, 01:58:35 PM »

Skyrim is such a fluffed up pile of shit. It shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Dark Souls unless you were to say something like, "Dark Souls is vastly superior to Skyrim."
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« Reply #1281 on: December 10, 2012, 02:04:33 PM »

No phubans, we were talking about NOT comparing them. Try to keep up.
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« Reply #1282 on: December 10, 2012, 02:30:16 PM »

remember how often dark souls used to be compared with skyrim for some reason even though they were always completely different
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« Reply #1283 on: December 10, 2012, 02:46:09 PM »

just to be serious for a moment here (i was j/k, my iq is actually 410), i'm more cautiously optimistic than anything. if it turns out like e.g. the la mulana remake it might actually be good. my main fear is that the new "approachability" doesn't come at the expense of long term enjoyment.

also hope they don't make the game more "gamey" (don't like that word but w/e). the integration of story and mechanics thing souls has going on is one of the main things that, imo, make it better than similar games.

p.s. i actually think skyrim is very good at what it tries to achieve but yeah, this isn't a skyrim thread.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 03:53:10 PM by C.A. Sinclair » Logged

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« Reply #1284 on: December 10, 2012, 03:01:26 PM »

No, it's not. Skyrim feels like glass the moment you experiment with it, which is the whole point of the game. Hell, the combat is presented as this real-time schtick then when it's wholly by the numbers and there is hardly anything you can do that relies more on skill and other factors in real-time combat unless you concentrate on range. It'd be much better if it was just honest with itself. I know it's a casual fantasy sandbox, but what if my fantasy is swinging my sword and having it register because i actually hit the mudcrab uguu take that ca (CLODHOPPER ASS) sinclair
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« Reply #1285 on: December 10, 2012, 03:49:32 PM »

Also kinda afraid of the whole accessibility thing. The game could use a better GUI, more sensible stats, and perhaps another tweak or two. So if they mean that, that's okay. But if I see even a glimpse of a quest marker, I'll rage with all the power that a righteous nerd rage brings. Also, making it more like Skyrim would be totally not understanding why the game fucking sold in the first place.

Somewhat related but not much. I noticed one thing in Dark Souls. I have no trouble getting around and finding my way, despite the levels being rather dark and complex, even though there's no mini-map. Actually, I'm able to orient myself better that in most games with mini-maps, as I actually have to pay attention to the level and learn it, rather than follow a quest marker through a 2D representation of the area. Mini-maps are evil.
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« Reply #1286 on: December 10, 2012, 04:07:22 PM »

Somewhat related but not much. I noticed one thing in Dark Souls. I have no trouble getting around and finding my way, despite the levels being rather dark and complex, even though there's no mini-map. Actually, I'm able to orient myself better that in most games with mini-maps, as I actually have to pay attention to the level and learn it, rather than follow a quest marker through a 2D representation of the area. Mini-maps are evil.
the level layout in both souls games is very clear and readable. there's usually an obvious path (or multiple branching paths) to the boss with some, often hidden, side paths to explore. what's cool is that the games generally don't make you backtrack a lot if you decide to explore a bit while trying to beat a level. this also has the nice side effect of the hidden stuff being right under your nose for the most part, so each new discovery makes you look at the level in a new light.

there are some exceptions like tower of latria in demon's souls but that's fun in its own right.
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« Reply #1287 on: December 10, 2012, 04:21:28 PM »

Nah, but really, I could get around just as well in older games that didn't have a mini-map, and they usually had much worse level design. I think that maps in general make the player too dependent on them and reduce the ability to actually look at the level and memorize it. I feel that a blog post is brewing :D.
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« Reply #1288 on: December 10, 2012, 04:26:47 PM »

no i always had bad orientation in older games so minimaps were kinda a godsend for me in a way. in souls i never found myself wanting a map even once.
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« Reply #1289 on: December 10, 2012, 04:30:02 PM »

Interesting. That's going into that blog post as well, then Gentleman.

Also, I stopped playing DkS as I had to focus on a milestone, and now I dunno when I'll find the time to finish it. Either this games is too long or I'm getting too old. Probably both.
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« Reply #1290 on: December 10, 2012, 04:48:58 PM »

I don't think people need minimaps or anything like that in games. It's just like exploring an area in real life - having a semblance of direction, we can mentally piece together the parts of areas like big cities and things. The main problem with getting lost in video games is that the environments don't mirror reality very well - repeated geometry and uninteresting environments really damage our memories and make spatial links that aren't there. Dark Souls does a pretty good job of avoiding this- I could go through any given area in it, piece-by-piece, and give you something specific that made that part of the area stand out - just like in a place in real life (yet there are some areas that more or less intentionally want you to get lost, like Darkroot Garden or Blighttown or the Depths, but even their level design is more varied and unique than usual (Depths - Basilisks, Giant Rat, holes in the floor, large setpiece you pass by (the boss arena), etc)) but I couldn't do the same naming thing for a lot of other games. I guess in general my point is that we should demand more from our level design - I was playing Assassin's Creed 3 the other day, just after a session of Demon's Souls, and the level design just seemed boring to me. It's not that it was bad per se, probably just about run-of-the-mill these days (or better, I dunno), just not nearly as good as DS. I remember running through a countryside that seemed flat and generic, and getting into functionally identical battle sequences along the way. Which gets me to another point, but one I won't elaborate on because then I'd be rambling. Difficulty (good difficulty, not fake) helps players remember level layouts well, too. If you had a near-death experience in New Londo Ruins after getting sandwiched by five ghosts (you know where I'm talking about (case in point)), you're going to remember it for later, and you're going to memorize the layout and other aspects. You're going to pay attention, just like in real life. Level design is important, but it's also very neglected.
These are some big shoes for DkS2 to fill. Hopefully they've got it figured out.
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« Reply #1291 on: December 10, 2012, 05:53:09 PM »

- Voiced by Nolan North, the Chosen Undead's tale will come to life through hundreds of lines of voiced dialogue detailing the origin and history of Dark Souls flagship character.  Uncover the history of Lordran and put a stop to the deadly plague that causes the dead to rise and seek the flesh of the living!

- Choose from up to five classes.  Knight, Pyromancer, Wizard, Cleric, or Archer!  Each one has an exciting range of unique skills available to you at the start, and more to discover!  Wield sword and shield as the Knight, cast flames and fire as the Pyromancy, slay your enemies with spells as the Wizard, use the wrath of the gods to attack your foes, or bullseye your enemies right between the eyes with the Archer!  There's a class for every playstyle!  

- Cultivate relations with friendly NPCs, and even have them blossom into romantic possibilities.  Get ready to thrust your crystal halberd into the gaping dragon of up eight romancable straight and gay options.  

- Loading screen hints have been implemented to reduce the redundancy of being shown descriptions of items you already own or may find soon.  Hints will remind player what button he should use to block, or that he should use his estus flask for the sake of recovery.  New players will gain valuable information, and even old pros might be surprised to learn a thing or two!

-  New difficulty options!  Recently added is the Storyline difficulty mode, which will allow players to experience the lore and world of Dark Souls without having to endure the boundaries of the difficult gameplay.  The second option is Beginner option, which will allow new players to become more accustomed to the world of Dark Souls with enemies with less health that hit harder and will feature less deadly traps.  But the core fans don't need to worry, because the third option of Dark Souls Experience will provide them with the Dark Souls experience that they have come to know and love through minimal navigation of our obtuse difficulty naming conventions.

- Solaire returns!  The firstborn son of Gwyn who had forsaken his godhood to quest for his sun will be featured prominently in the game.  Solaire will act as your helpful guide through the world of Dark Souls, and with his head held high will continue his glorious quest to bring sunlight back to the world of Lordran!  Sun be Praised!

- Purchase the Dark Souls season pass to experience all four upcoming DLC packs as soon as they are released!  Explore the dark and foreboding realm of [TBA], brave the gloomy crypt of the fearsome [TBA], and revisit an area that you would have though was integral to the plot and should have been in the base game but wasn't in [TBA].  All which culminates in an exciting post-game spectacle offering a third ending in [TBA].

- Gamestop exclusive items!  Be sure to pre-order your game to receive the exclusive Do the Dew™ taunt for your character to use in-game.  Strike fear into the heart of Darkwraiths as you show off your refreshed demeanor and cool and with-it temperament as you down a cool Mountain Dew, the official drink of Dark Souls!  

- Who will you play as?  Track your karma through dozens of actions.  Will you be the type who kills to survive in this harsh world, or will you hold onto your humanity long enough to attempt to save the denizens of Lordran!  

- Align yourself with covenants to gain more power!  Completely covenant quests will gain you access to all sorts of spells an items.  Choose from Way of the White, Princess Guard, or an exciting new covenant that you'll just have to discover on your own!  

- Tweet Your Defeat!  Join your GFWL account with your Steam account with your Twitter account with your Facebook account to upload screenshots of yourself on death.  Forge an artificial facade of community through intrusive social media integration as you spread the chronicles of your numerous defeat against the unforgiving world of Dark Souls II!

Follow IGN for all the up to the minute Dark Souls II news!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 07:43:40 PM by Samtagonist » Logged
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« Reply #1292 on: December 10, 2012, 06:31:55 PM »

lol. you were arguing about how demographics are cool and now you're completely insane.
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« Reply #1293 on: December 10, 2012, 08:00:03 PM »

Soooo basically Mass Effect then?

Difficulty selections... *shudder*
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« Reply #1294 on: December 10, 2012, 08:43:52 PM »

I think it was really a direct jab at me3.
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« Reply #1295 on: December 11, 2012, 06:29:32 AM »

I think the dig at having a "class system" is actually a bit unwarranted considering that there are "builds" for Dark Souls that work better than just having all-around balanced stats. There is technically a class system, even if it is never set in stone. For example, a DEX+INT build could be considered a "spellsword", while a STR+HP+END build is more like a "warrior".

Of course, the set weapon levels really do counteract the addition of any sort of set class to the game. However, getting bonus moves and abilities depending on what levels you raise would be cool. Perhaps the game could tell your highest stat(s) and classify you as such.

Romance options in Dark Souls would be as thus: everyone dies.

Also, what's so horrible about Covenant-specific story options, considering you have to do fetch quests to level up in each covenant?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 06:36:09 AM by SundownKid » Logged

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« Reply #1296 on: December 11, 2012, 11:05:18 AM »

Mmm, the emphasis on 'unrelenting punishment' kinda makes me leery.

The pure difficulty level of a game isn't as important to how fun the game is as much as why the game is difficult, and how enjoyable it is to overcome its challenges.


I'd just rather DarkSouls II's difficulty ends up being more hard, but rewarding, like rebuilding a car or painting a masterpiece, rather than hard and excruciating, like rubbing broken glass in your eyes.  Sad
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« Reply #1297 on: December 11, 2012, 11:35:37 AM »

Mmm, the emphasis on 'unrelenting punishment' kinda makes me leery.

The pure difficulty level of a game isn't as important to how fun the game is as much as why the game is difficult, and how enjoyable it is to overcome its challenges.
they said the same about dark souls 1 and it turned out just fine. i know this is almost cliche to say but the "extreme difficulty" of the souls gams is p overstated.
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« Reply #1298 on: December 11, 2012, 11:49:55 AM »

eXtreme Difficulty Prepare To Die ® is just a part of the marketing. The game was sold to the mainstream audience with the notion that if you beat it, you're the man (®). It probably doesn't mean they'll actually make it any harder.
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« Reply #1299 on: December 11, 2012, 12:30:59 PM »

My brother play it 1hours and never touch it again, bored ... he had finished ninja gaiden black on highest difficulty (the challenge tower too).
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