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[Paul Eres]

yeah i said there were other genres; i also missed platformers (japanese dominant), RTS games (western dominant), etc.

tactical rpgs are one of my favorite genres, and it's mainly japan that makes them. the west used to make them (e.g. jagged alliance 2, xcom, etc.) but doesn't seem to really make them anymore

and yeah, that's another a good point about some of the best japanese games not often being released outside of japan. part of the reason i originally decided to study the japanese language was simply to be able to play all the great games that never got translated. even with fan translations on the rise there's still a ton of those. the west often has to push japan to release its best games outside of japan, they're very reluctant to do so. there was a huge campaign to get them to release the last story and xenoblade in the US for instance (they finally relented after like years of pushing by fans)

[Irock]

I thought the movie was pretty good! Some of the Jonathan Blow stuff wasn't as interesting as I expected and there are a couple jarring jump cuts in the interview segments, but other than that it was mostly good.

I had a person in another forum calling me jealous simply for criticizing Phil Fish.

March 09, 2012, 05:08:53 pm

Never forget.

I devoted a single sentence to calling you jealous as a joke in response to you saying that you were mad Fish won the IGF. Stop trying to make yourself look cool.

[Paul Eres]

as an aside, i don't see how it's a bad thing to be jealous in a certain respect -- he got to work on his game full time for 5 years, with a substantial amount of funding, without having to work at any other job, and with full creative control over the game. most indies would love to have had that opportunity. i think that any indie, given that situation, would create something really great

[BlueSweatshirt]

It's easy to make something sound desirable when you only list the positive aspects.

[Paul Eres]

exactly; focus on the positive about everything rather than the negative and everyone would be much happier! (e.g. focus on the good of japanese games rather than the bad, focus on the good of an individual rather than the bad, etc.)

for instance, when i review games for the blog, or even when i play a game for personal enjoyment, i definitely do try to focus on the best aspects of a game, the reasons it's worth playing, rather than focus on the bad parts

(that's not to say you can't criticize anything, just that it should be done in the context of the good parts, since the good of something is almost always more important than bad of it)

[BlueSweatshirt]

That's incredibly naive.


Such positions will lead you to having skewed, inaccurate perceptions of reality. A good example of this is how you just painted Phil Fish's experience developing Fez as rosy and wonderful, when to a rational eye was clearly thorny and stress-ridden.

Hey, let's live in a fanciful world where we ignore bad things to make ourselves feel better. Ray Bradbury sighs in his grave.

[Paul Eres]

which part -- the part about the good of something being more important than the bad of it, i'm guessing? i guess it is a bit anne frank -like, but it's what has matched my experience

in this particular case for instance, can you really say that there are many game developers in the world who would not suffer through the bad parts of working on their dream game for 5 years in exchange for that opportunity? i suspect most people would jump at the chance, even knowing all the bad involved, because the good of it so much outweighs the bad

[thatshelby]

That's incredibly naive.


Such positions will lead you to having skewed, inaccurate perceptions of reality. A good example of this is how you just painted Phil Fish's experience developing Fez as rosy and wonderful, when to a rational eye was clearly thorny and stress-ridden.

Hey, let's live in a fanciful world where we ignore bad things to make ourselves feel better. Ray Bradbury sighs in his grave.

why do you have to have a perfectly not-skewed perception of reality

why is it good to not be naive

[BlueSweatshirt]

<deleted previous message>


I see no point in continuing this.

[Irock]

exactly; focus on the positive about everything rather than the negative and everyone would be much happier! (e.g. focus on the good of japanese games rather than the bad, focus on the good of an individual rather than the bad, etc.)

for instance, when i review games for the blog, or even when i play a game for personal enjoyment, i definitely do try to focus on the best aspects of a game, the reasons it's worth playing, rather than focus on the bad parts

Maybe you should put that philosophy to use and focus on the good aspects of Phil Fish rather than the bad.

[Paul Eres]

That's incredibly naive.


Such positions will lead you to having skewed, inaccurate perceptions of reality. A good example of this is how you just painted Phil Fish's experience developing Fez as rosy and wonderful, when to a rational eye was clearly thorny and stress-ridden.

Hey, let's live in a fanciful world where we ignore bad things to make ourselves feel better. Ray Bradbury sighs in his grave.

why do you have to have a perfectly not-skewed perception of reality

why is it good to not be naive

ah, i didn't actually see the rest of his comment, just the first sentence (he edited the rest in later)

i think this comment i wrote in a phil fish interview on indiegames.com is appropriate here since it deals with the bad parts he went through while developing the game. from http://indiegames.com/2011/12/the_making_of_fez_the_breaking.html

yes, working on an indie game can be hard, but working a day job can also be hard. i too have worked on an indie game for an extend period of time (i'm at 4.5 years now), and it's pretty unpleasant. but would i have rather have had to work in data entry or as a telemarketer or in retail or something? i think that would be even more unpleasant. i think a lot of the commenters are like 'if i could spend all day doing what i love, i'd be perfectly happy, so how dare he not see how great of a position he's in', but, exactly because they have *not* been in such a position, they don't see that it has difficulties of its own

e.g. writer's block can be very painful, even if it's not as painful as being yelled at by your boss. e.g. worrying about whether anyone will like your game or if it's just wasted a huge chunk of your life is bad, but is it as bad as having to walk through the snow to work and then cleaning bathrooms 8 hours a day? not remotely as bad. so basically i think there's a measure of pain in everything, and people not in a situation tend to underestimate the pain it entails, and overestimate their own pain

when i was 20, there was nothing i wanted more in the world than to be an indie game developer; to stay at home all day and make games as i want to make them, and to find an audience that loves and appreciates them and buys them. now that i'm 33 and have actually been doing that for the past 13 years, i can say that at 20 i didn't understand the difficulties that entails, like having to choose between a dental filling and a month of food, i might have thought twice about it. but i think even knowing the difficulties, i'd still have done it, and been happy to, and grateful that i was able to do it

but perhaps i've just been better than fish at avoiding burn-out. i don't work on my game 10 hours a day; 4-6 daily is about all i can handle. i still exercise, i still talk to friends. i would do more on the game if i could, but i know that i can't, and if i tried i'd just make myself sick. it might mean the game is a little worse, or even a lot worse, but it's just a game, one's life comes first

[Paul Eres]

Maybe you should put that philosophy to use and focus on the good aspects of Phil Fish rather than the bad.

i do! i think he's a great developer, it's pretty amazing that he managed to create such a high quality-looking game for his first title, and i look forward to future games by him. i just find his personality a little bit offputting / disrespectful, and i definitely think he needs to act more professional in his public statements, but overall i definitely think he's more good than bad, absolutely. i also agree with a lot of what he says about games, i think his knowledge of what made old games great (such as zelda1) is rare to see in a developer

[JWK5]

I think if someone took a crap on a chocolate cake all the positives of the cake will pale in comparison to the negative (i.e. the fact there is a turd on it). Unless you're into scatophagia, in which case I guess the turd is more positive than the cake is. Anyways, there can be aspects to things which are overwhelmingly negative and outweigh the positives, no matter how numerous the positives are.

On the flip side, exactly how negative the negatives are and how positive the positives are can vary greatly from person to person depending on their personal perceptions of the experience.

Generally, though, I would agree that it is best to focus more on the positives (but without blinding yourself to the negatives).



Honestly I don't know Phil Fish (or of him) enough to say what his personality is like, and it is not like I have never had outbursts or stuck my foot in my mouth so I can't really demonize him for that even if I strongly disagree with some of his sentiments, but if a person can do what it is they love to do and make a decent living off of it then more power to them. It is a good accomplishment one way or the other.

I don't think anyone in the video is undeserving of their chance to be heard, I mean if people are willing to listen they might as well speak and it is not like everything they say is without worth, but as I said before I'd like to see more people that aren't internet pseudo-celebrities get their turn at the mic.

Either that or fuck everyone and just film Paul Eres drinking tea for an hour and a half to classic Chinese strings while Superb Joe schools everyone in the ways of the universe.

[Irock]

Maybe you should put that philosophy to use and focus on the good aspects of Phil Fish rather than the bad.

i do! i think he's a great developer, it's pretty amazing that he managed to create such a high quality-looking game for his first title, and i look forward to future games by him. i just find his personality a little bit offputting / disrespectful, and i definitely think he needs to act more professional in his public statements, but overall i definitely think he's more good than bad, absolutely

The thing is, from what I've seen, most of the time he comes off as a genuinely interesting, passionate and nice guy. You're letting the negative aspects of his personality overshadow the positive, to the point where you're going to miss a big important chunk of IG:TM because of it. (he doesn't say anything that could possibly offend the public in the movie, by the way)

[Paul Eres]

I think if someone took a crap on a chocolate cake all the positives of the cake will pale in comparison to the negative (i.e. the fact there is a turd on it). Unless you're into scatophagia, in which case I guess the turd is more positive than the cake is. Anyways, there can be aspects to things which are overwhelmingly negative and outweigh the positives, no matter how numerous the positives are.

yeah but to be clear i only said that in *most* things the good outweighs the bad. there are still a couple of things where the bad outweighs the good

but even in those i still enjoy finding the good parts. for instance, have you heard of the fred phelps cult? they go to funerals and picket the dead solders with signs like "god hates gays" and "thank god for dead soldiers" and similar. several months ago i watched a couple of documentaries on them. and the one thing that impressed me about them was how dedicated they are, and how well they persevere in spite of the whole world hating them. i wish i had their level of complete confidence where i could go somewhere where i know everyone will hate what i say and maybe even attack me (they've been attacked on many occasions, even their kids) for saying something i believe. i also think a great thing about them is that they're a great illustration of the importance of free speech. they also make some really funny/clever parodies of popular songs (here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgxBOtAOIM&feature=player_embedded). but i agree that that cult is more bad than good, even if the individuals caught up in it may have some really good parts to them