next »

[Malky]

@Malky: As I already explained in my previous post, it's a cultural thing. In most countries that were directly affected by Nazism, casually comparing things to the holocaust, especially in public, is a taboo.

I actually already knew that!  I'm from America, and we don't like Nazis here either.  I also learned a lot about them, because in America, we talk about WWII a lot!

I think you may have missed my point, though.  I was explaining how lots of language gets used in "offensive" ways to make certain points!  I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it sure does happen all the time.  You even did it too!  After all, in my culture, it's fucking rude to call someone an apologist.  Hey, I did it too!

[TeeGee]

I don't think it's farfetched that a Fish would go relax in its hotel's pool, especially if it's under a lot of stress and pressure, which it clearly was.

It's also not unlikely that after a hard and bloody battle for a hill, a couple of soldiers decided to set a flag of their country atop of it. But when a documentary about the battle focuses on long shots of the said flag, while the national anthem plays in the background, I would say it presents a skewed version of reality bordering on propaganda and doesn't depict accurately what it really means to be a soldier.

[C.A. Sinner]

basically the movie implicitly reinforces the notion that non-commercial games and games that aren't twee / "artsy" platformers  aren't "indie."

I don't get how it reinforces this notion. Could you elaborate?

1. All the games featured in the movie fulfill the criteria I just mentioned.
2. The money / marketing aspect features heavily.
3. It's implied that it represents what the "indie scene" is generally like

Basically it plays into the stereotype that already exists about "indie games" outside of places like TIGsource. It's gotten to the point where most people don't even call the games that don't fit into the sort of thing presented by the movie "indie games" anymore.

[PompiPompi]

@Malky: As I already explained in my previous post, it's a cultural thing. In most countries that were directly affected by Nazism, casually comparing things to the holocaust, especially in public, is a taboo.

I actually already knew that!  I'm from America, and we don't like Nazis here either.  I also learned a lot about them, because in America, we talk about WWII a lot!

I think you may have missed my point, though.  I was explaining how lots of language gets used in "offensive" ways to make certain points!  I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it sure does happen all the time.  You even did it too!  After all, in my culture, it's fucking rude to call someone an apologist.  Hey, I did it too!

He just told you "When you talk like that about the holocaust a lot of people are going to respond negatively about you"
Is it so hard to understand?
Nobody said we should cut Edmund's tounge off for saying this, but just that it is expected that a lot of people are going to be pissed by that.
Then you bring unrelated arguments saying that Edmund can say it, because there are other things that are offensive. I don't disagree that there are other things that are offensive and I don't disagree that Edmund can say that. I just don't see how is that relevant to what was explained to you.

[TeeGee]

I'm still more bothered by the fact that they put it in the trailer for some cheap controversy, than by the actual statement.

[Superb Joe]

you're all, if you'll excuse my language for a moment here, extremely large noobs

[Malky]

He just told you "When you talk like that about the holocaust a lot of people are going to respond negatively about you"
Is it so hard to understand?
Nobody said we should cut Edmund's tounge off for saying this, but just that it is expected that a lot of people are going to be pissed by that.
Then you bring unrelated arguments saying that Edmund can say it, because there are other things that are offensive. I don't disagree that there are other things that are offensive and I don't disagree that Edmund can say that. I just don't see how is that relevant to what was explained to you.

You're coming off as a little rude in this post!  If you're not intending to do so, maybe you should look at the "voice" you're using when you're writing.  If you are, well, I understand your frustration, but I hope we can come to a reasonable understanding!

My point is that it isn't always a big deal!  You're right, it is expected that people will be offended by certain comparisons, including comparisons to a concentration camp.  But I think that, as reasonable adults, we can understand what McMillen meant, and appreciate it in that context.  And if we do so, I think we can see that McMillen is actually just doing something that is very common and reasonable, and not a ploy for attention-grabbing or cheap controversy or anything silly like that!

[Irock]

I don't think it's farfetched that a Fish would go relax in its hotel's pool, especially if it's under a lot of stress and pressure, which it clearly was.

It's also not unlikely that after a hard and bloody battle for a hill, a couple of soldiers decided to set a flag of their country atop of it. But when a documentary about the battle focuses on long shots of the said flag, while the national anthem plays in the background, I would say it presents a skewed version of reality bordering on propaganda and doesn't depict accurately what it really means to be a soldier.

Making games for a living can be stressful at certain points and people swim, while the large majority of soldiers never do anything remotely similar to climbing a bloody hill and erecting a flag in a dramatic fashion. They showed Phil Fish swimming and being stressed, and there's nothing exaggerated or unrealistic about that. It's something most people can relate to.

But even for the things they showed that most people could never experience, like being one of the most known indie developers of all time and having games on XBLA, it doesn't matter because, again, this isn't a movie about the average indie developer, but rather the stories of a select few.

[TeeGee]

Making games for a living can be stressful at certain points and people swim, while the large majority of soldiers never do anything remotely similar to climbing a bloody hill and erecting a flag in a dramatic fashion.

And just like majority of soldiers don't erect flags, majority of indie devs don't sit in faintly lit rooms, suffer greatly, and talk about how their platformers are deeply personal. That was exactly the point of my analogy. To me this movie is precisely like showing erecting a flag in a dramatic fashion. With emphasis on dramatic. I don't like it. I find it false. And I don't think the film is clear that this is just a story of three people and not a broader statement on this scene.

[Irock]

Making games for a living can be stressful at certain points and people swim, while the large majority of soldiers never do anything remotely similar to climbing a bloody hill and erecting a flag in a dramatic fashion.

And just like majority of soldiers don't erect flags, majority of indie devs don't sit in faintly lit rooms, suffer greatly and talk about how their platformers are deeply personal. That was exactly the point of my analogy. To me this movie is precisely like showing erecting a flag in a dramatic fashion. With emphasis on dramatic.

Maybe more indie developers should try being interesting.

[TeeGee]

You see, that's the thing. I don't find it interesting. I find it annoying, exalted and over-dramatic. I find passionate people happy to do what they love interesting, I find what they showed in the shorts interesting, hell I even find these same people interesting in their other appearances in various interviews and such. But not in this movie.

[Irock]

If they had ignored the pain that comes along with being an indie developer, then the movie would have been even less realistic. I thought they covered both genuine happiness and genuine pain in the movie very well.

[TeeGee]

This is where we differ. I think it focuses too much on the drama and not enough on the awesome aspects of being an indie dev. When I first saw their shorts, I liked how they both showed the artsy / nostalgic aspect of making indie games, as well as how full of energy and creativity this scene is. I loved it and expected the full movie to be more of that. In my opinion, it isn't.

But I can respect your point of view as well. As I said before - personal reception is completely subjective and depends on many things. I know that when I was your age I was much more attracted to this kind of dramatic personalities, for example.

[dota_mtdew]

If they had ignored the pain that comes along with being an indie developer, then the movie would have been even less realistic. I thought they covered both genuine happiness and genuine pain in the movie very well.

Lol

[Blademasterbobo]

@Malky: As I already explained in my previous post, it's a cultural thing. In most countries that were directly affected by Nazism, casually comparing things to the holocaust, especially in public, is a taboo.

I actually already knew that!  I'm from America, and we don't like Nazis here either.  I also learned a lot about them, because in America, we talk about WWII a lot!

I think you may have missed my point, though.  I was explaining how lots of language gets used in "offensive" ways to make certain points!  I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it sure does happen all the time.  You even did it too!  After all, in my culture, it's fucking rude to call someone an apologist.  Hey, I did it too!

He just told you "When you talk like that about the holocaust a lot of people are going to respond negatively about you"
Is it so hard to understand?
Nobody said we should cut Edmund's tounge off for saying this, but just that it is expected that a lot of people are going to be pissed by that.
Then you bring unrelated arguments saying that Edmund can say it, because there are other things that are offensive. I don't disagree that there are other things that are offensive and I don't disagree that Edmund can say that. I just don't see how is that relevant to what was explained to you.

You're coming off as a little rude in this post!  If you're not intending to do so, maybe you should look at the "voice" you're using when you're writing.  If you are, well, I understand your frustration, but I hope we can come to a reasonable understanding!

My point is that it isn't always a big deal!  You're right, it is expected that people will be offended by certain comparisons, including comparisons to a concentration camp.  But I think that, as reasonable adults, we can understand what McMillen meant, and appreciate it in that context.  And if we do so, I think we can see that McMillen is actually just doing something that is very common and reasonable, and not a ploy for attention-grabbing or cheap controversy or anything silly like that!

most patronizing poster of the year award?